New Realities recorded on June 18, 2022
Summary
In this conversation, Barbara Hand Clow discusses with Alan Steinfeld the intersection of astrology and Kundalini awakening, focusing on the significance of the Uranus opposition in mid-life. She explains how understanding astrological transits like the Saturn return, Uranus opposition, and Chiron return can demystify spiritual emergencies and emotional crises. The discussion also touches upon Pleiadian energies, climate change cycles, and the global shift towards higher consciousness and multi-dimensionality.
Transcript
Joan
So according to a gifted astrologer, Barbara Hand Clow, unique to understanding of Kundalini awakening is when there is a transit of Uranus, it is opposing the placement of Uranus in your birth chart. For instance, if your Uranus is 1 degree Leo when you are born, when it moves into 1 degree Aquarius in your chart, that is direct opposition. And she’s going to outline the signs of Kundalini awakening and how to use it for our greatest potential. And we’re very very excited. And I want to mention before you start that, see how it says astrology, Barbara is going to be one of our speakers, our seven gifted astrologers that’s going to be in our seven-week cosmic awakening with astrology program that Sheima Moore is going to be co-producing with us. So guys I want you to be prepared for this, it’s going to be announced very soon.
Alan Steinfeld
I just want to say one more thing about Barbara. She’s also a fiction writer. She’s an amazing astrologer but she just wrote a trilogy of fiction books. I actually just came across someone who was reading it Barbara and couldn’t put it down. These are, the last book was called Revelations from the Source. Is that right?
Barbara Hand Clow
Yes, that’s right.
Alan Steinfeld
And it’s a character development as it’s intertwined with astrology and spiritual awakening and the human drama. There’s so much she puts so much into this, it should be a movie everybody is saying and maybe it will be.
Barbara Hand Clow
I hope so. Thank you Alan.
Alan Steinfeld
Thanks, great to see you again and jump in wherever you want to, do you want to go ahead, it’s all yours.
Barbara Hand Clow
Just to make sure people know what we’re talking about when you have Uranus in one degree Leo and then Uranus comes to one degree Aquarius. That’s a transit to your chart and I think most of the people who watch this program understand transits, Mercury transits, Venus transits etc, but just to clarify what that is.
Alan Steinfeld
But that also takes how many years? So it’s like when you’re a certain age?
Barbara Hand Clow
Well, the difficulty with Uranus transits is that Uranus’s orbit is slightly elliptical and so you can get a Uranus opposition at age 38 or up to age 44. Like right now, people who are getting their Uranus oppositions right now are generally speaking 43 to 44 years old, so they’re getting a late Uranus opposition. And then my group of people and Alan’s group of people, we got our Uranus oppositions when we were only 38 years old, which is a very transformative experience. One of many reasons why the boomer generation was such a revolutionary group of people.
Alan Steinfeld
Now why does Uranus opposition to its Uranus natal chart create this activation within the physical body?
Barbara Hand Clow
Well, this is the key question, because before this astrology and the rising of Kundalini was first published as The Liquid Light of Sex, kind of a wonderful title that attracted a lot of attention. And this is now 31 or 32 years ago when that book came out. And the way the book happened was that before the 1990s, like back in the 1970s and 1980s, I was involved in all kinds of spiritual adventures and got to know a lot of gurus and got to know a lot of meditators. And generally speaking, until my book came out, people were attempting to trigger Kundalini at any age, like 20 years old, 15 years old, whatever. And then what we were seeing before my book came out, and it’s still seen to some extent although not nearly as extensively, we were seeing lots of spiritual emergencies. Because when Kundalini rises too quickly, and when our body and our emotions and our mental state is not prepared for Kundalini, people can go into a spiritual emergency, which can involve all kinds of shaking and all kinds of kriyas, and it can involve sometimes unfortunately heart problems. A lot of men are in danger to some extent of a heart attack right when Uranus opposition actually occurs. So to back up a little bit, I became very concerned about what was going on with eastern spiritual practices coming to the United States and coming to Europe, because people were not really in a culture and they were not really psychologically prepared for Kundalini rising when they were young. And so I started out advising people to just wait until they were ready. But meanwhile I also was a reading astrologer and had a lot of clients, and in the basically the 1980s I was noticing definite signs of Kundalini energy rising when people were having their Uranus opposition. In fact, I would often see that people would be hit by a spiritual emergency literally the very day of the Uranus transit. And of course this Uranus transit goes on over a period of 18 months because Uranus goes over the opposition point, then it retrogrades back, then it comes forward again, so this is not just a one-time event, it’s like usually about a year and a half. And so once I started noticing that, I started watching, like what’s going on here, this is definitely whatever this is, this is being triggered by the Uranus opposition transit. And so once I spotted that, then it became very clear what was going on, because people would come into me and they would say that they had extreme heat in their spine, they would say a lot of people had stiffness and sometimes almost semi-paralysis. Because Uranus opposition and Kundalini rising is a really interesting phenomenon and now here I am 30 years later with a lot of thought that I put into this, in fact I’m going to revise this book again and add more material because I think this is so important. But what I’ve noticed over these 30 years after this paradigm came in through Liquid Light of Sex, what I’ve noticed is that when people understand at Uranus opposition what is actually going on, when they’re given some instructions or if they read Astrology and the Rising of Kundalini, what happens to them is very interesting. For some strange reason, and I can’t figure out how it could be, but it seems to be true, when people comprehend mentally what’s happening with Kundalini rising, then they have a reason. Because it’s a form of semi-insanity. I mean the first experiences any of us have with Kundalini rising are close to being wacko crazy. Because that’s just how Kundalini energy is, until we learn how to channel it, until we learn how to be comfortable with it, until we learn how to use it for rejuvenation, because that’s what Kundalini rising is all about. So before we get to that point where we know how to use the energy, we feel crazy. And so most people, when they get an explanation for why they feel crazy, and when they get some explanation for the timing and the best thing to do when you’re counseling with astrologers, astrologers the best thing we do is we tell people when a transit’s over. And so people start to realize like, oh god this is going to go on for another eight months, but it’s finally going to be over with, which it will be. It will finish itself. That hot, juicy, electrical charging at Uranus opposition is where the real difficulty and tension comes in.
Alan Steinfeld
So Barbara, what do you suggest then, looking at people’s charts and we’re moving into a new time, and I have to say Barbara is the founder of Bear & Company, one of the first really devoted spiritual book publishers that have had huge influence on our emerging culture, Joan. So but what’s going on now, we’re moving into a new time and the energies of the planet are different and how do we play with this, it’s time for welcoming Kundalini I think into the collective, that’s why we’re doing this, but how do we proceed? That’s my question.
Barbara Hand Clow
Well, you know the first question for me Alan after I got the book done, Joan, the first real question for me was, well maybe it’s just our generation, I mean you and me Alan and probably Joan, maybe the next generation won’t have the same thing going on. Well boy that turned out to be wrong, the next generation, first of all, one of my daughters is going through it right now and she’s going, even though she knows a lot and she’s being coached beautifully, she’s just going through all kinds of stuff and she can’t believe the power of it. So I’ve been watching my daughter and then another young client of mine that I’ve been working with for 40 years, and I’ve been watching the two of them very carefully. Because it’s great because I can observe them. And I think it’s even more intense for them than it was for me, that’s my impression at this point. And so when I go back to when I had Kundalini rising, which is when I was in graduate school, I shook my way all the way through graduate school. There are people, I ran into people who used to be in my class and they say like, you were really weird, and I said yeah I was really weird. I was really weird. In my case I literally, I was earthquaking all the way through graduate school. And so now, as far as I can tell, the one thing I would say about Kundalini rising for those who are around 43, 44, because of sexual liberation and because of so much of a liberal tendency within the sexual mores of our culture right now, some of the people who are having it now are having difficulty distinguishing between sexual energy and Kundalini energy. And that is of course some people are going to just work that out by having sex and doing different things which is perfectly okay. But I would say that understanding mentally better what really goes on with Kundalini energy, then the Kundalini energy is going to awaken and rejuvenate all of the chakras and not just the lower chakras. And so the real goal of Kundalini rising, especially at midlife crisis, is to get that energy to move right from the lower chakras, and by the way in my system, in a book called Alchemy of Nine Dimensions because I’ve written a lot of books, the first dimension in my system is the iron core crystal in the center of the earth. And then the energy from the iron core crystal is what rejuvenates all of it, it’s like the source of life for all beings who incarnate on the planet Earth. And so the energy is coming from this really deep place right in the center of the Earth and that’s called in my system, that’s called the first dimension. And so the first dimension, according to my research, is in vibratory resonance and contact with all of the centers of all of the other entities in the universe. So the iron core crystal in the center of our planet is vibrating with the moon, vibrating with the planets, vibrating with stars and supernovas and galaxies and centers in the universe. And therefore the iron core crystal, the first dimension that we get in touch with through our bodies, it’s like the akashic records and it’s like the records of all time, and it actually puts us in touch with everything in the universe. Now that’s not an easy thing to adjust to. That’s a big deal. Speaking of Alan’s wonderful book on contact and what happens for people when they get in touch with beings in other dimensions. So then the energy comes into the root chakra and into the sexual center and then of course what happens is there’s issues with how each person is going to handle that. And then hopefully the energy rises through the sexual center and creates a great deal of life force and consciousness and then it moves into the solar plexus. And when the energy moves into the solar plexus, then we start dealing with deep emotional issues. And so this mental ability to understand what’s actually happening makes it easier to handle the energy that comes into the solar plexus, because if you don’t understand that it’s a solar plexus awakening, what usually happens is all kinds of crazy things go on all around you. The energy from within you tends to be projected out into your environment and into people you’re in business with and partners and all kinds of things. And the more that you can understand that it’s your energy that’s activating and it’s there to teach you, and this of course is a very plutonic experience also of course. Then the energy, if it can move through the complexes and polarization and duality in the solar plexus, then the energy starts to move into the heart. And when the energy moves into the heart at Uranus opposition and with anybody experiencing Kundalini energy, I don’t have to tell either one of you what a wonderful experience that is. Because at that point, then we really start expanding our total beingness and consciousness in our bodies. Then of course the energy moves up to the throat chakra. And then up of course through the higher chakras and we’ll go into those if we need to. But as a generalization, men tend to be blocked in the heart chakra because they’ve been blocked emotionally as children more than girls usually are. Now that fortunately is changing, that was the Victorian era, thank God that’s gone. But women tend to be blocked more in the throat chakra because they felt like they couldn’t speak. And so at this point with these two chakras, for people who are counseling astrologers and are using astrology and Kundalini, helping people with the difference between those two issues, and of course I covered that in my book.
Joan
One thing I saw in your book Barbara that I just wanted to ask you about, which really struck me, you said that in the throat chakra we’re suffering from patriarchal authority. And I found that that really struck me really deep and you were just talking about, you know the male energy too. So I’m fascinated about how the astrology then can correlate to each of these chakras and working with this energy, so can you talk about that a little more, because for women really being able to rise our own energy and pull out that authority…
Barbara Hand Clow
Well usually Joan, the most common symptom with throat chakra blockage in men or women but especially women is that they get an incredibly stiff neck. And at that point they go off to the masseuse or the chiropractor or whoever. And I’ve noticed with problems with stiff neck, it’s so annoying. I’ve noticed just like with Kundalini rising in general, when they get a reason for the stiff neck, miraculously it goes away. You know in the old Greek mythology and in early Minoan cultures and all that, there was always this phenomenon called a wryneck, which is a very interesting word because a wryneck is some kind of bird of some sort. But the wryneck is also used to connote a blocked neck and a blocked throat. And the interesting thing about that, and this is what happened to me with Uranus opposition of course, is once my neck got completely freed up, I never got a stiff neck. But once I totally unblocked the throat chakra, what do you think I started doing? Channeling. Naturally. Because the energy is going to come through and you’re going to be able to receive messages through the throat chakra because the throat chakra is really the governor of the ability to be in touch with energies in other dimensions. Well that’s really interesting, isn’t it? And then third eye opens up and people see more and at that point in this crazy culture that we live in, they really, I really love encouraging people to value the ability to see, because it’s an incredible skill, very, very useful skill for living in life. And then of course we go off into the crown and higher chakras.
Alan Steinfeld
Now this is a beautiful cosmology of the process of awakening. And, you know, a couple of questions come up for me, because you said Kundalini can be confused with sexual energy, but isn’t the sexual energy sort of part of the Kundalini? How would you tell the difference? And it seems like it’s mixed together in that kind of serpent way as it comes up through the chakras, right? It’s going to activate the sexual energy and that’s like our core energy, so how do we not indulge, I guess, something?
Barbara Hand Clow
Well, like with sexual issues always, integrity and honesty and all those things are very, our culture is way downplaying the need for integrity and honesty in sexuality. Because, the reason it’s important is a lot more than people think. Sexuality is your easiest way to achieve higher dimensionality. And so if you’ve been able to cultivate a really loving relationship with a partner, for many many years, then what happens is the sexual energy of the Kundalini rising is part of a loving relationship. And so you know, then what happens is there’s a linkage with the heart, and you’re not going to have as many problems with you know because relationships are really the toughest thing that we do. Like I’ve been married for 50 years now, wow, and I would say that it was only in about the 42nd or 43rd year where we were free, the two of us, of all of the stuff that can mess you up, mixed up parental issues, I mean we could talk about so many things. But really, you know sexuality is such a source of health and energy and connection to other dimensions that being clear what’s happening during your Uranus opposition, and I’ve seen quite a few people go completely whacked out, really get really screwed up right there, literally. And all it does is it’s okay, they make it through, I find usually by the third hit they figure it out and they make it through, but it just makes it harder. And I’m really into doing things the easy way whenever it’s possible.
Joan
But what happens when this Uranus opposition hits then and people are you know in your book I know you say it’s almost like going through menopause for some women besides the midlife crisis. So like what actually will happen?
Barbara Hand Clow
Well okay first of all you know the symptoms of spiritual emergency. You know heat in the spine and heart tension, all the different, and the best book on that is a book called Kundalini or Psychosis, and it’s by Lee Sannella. It’s by far the best book I’ve got a dog-eared copy I’ve had for 50, 60 years. And so what happens is people first of all, emotionally people feel crazy. Physically people feel frantic, and they feel like you know like driven, they feel like they’re in a corner, they just feel all kinds of frantic emotions. Because the energy that’s coming through you and into your body is activating so many parts of you that have been dormant that it’s just like you just feel crazy until you get used to it. But thankfully, when people read up on it and read the books and there are many out there that, and you know in the old days or still probably in Eastern cultures, people have to have a guru or a counselor or a guide when they’re going through Kundalini issues because it’s so complicated. But I actually have found in Western culture that just understanding the paradigm solves a huge part of the problem for people.
Alan Steinfeld
You know it’s interesting, I mean everybody has a Uranus opposition 38 to 44, but not everyone has the Kundalini awareness or awakening, or they probably do but why is that, only some people? And but because everyone’s having that configuration in their charts and most people don’t feel it, right?
Barbara Hand Clow
Well, see where I thought the tomatoes were going to be flying at me, I’m always thinking a book comes out and I’m going who’s going to throw the tomatoes, you know I’m sure you felt the same way. And I felt like Eastern meditators would be really, really upset with me. Because if you think about it, Alan, this book is positing that everybody gets Kundalini rising at Uranus opposition. Now, if you go into Eastern meditation and asanas and breathing techniques and all that, the idea always is that only some people will achieve it. So you’ll get people in yoga classes and all that and meditation classes who are like 25 or 30, 35 years old or whatever, and they’re just not ready. And so eastern meditators have developed, I mean some not all, this is a generalization, because what did happen to be truthful is that when this book came out, lots of people working with eastern techniques just loved this book. And if you really think about the real teachings in like India and Indonesia, different countries where there’s a lot of eastern theology, the teaching at the deepest level is that people, people should, until they’re around 40 years old, it’s very clear, until they’re around 40 years old, they should have a family, have a business, and live an ordinary life. And if you get into the depths of the teachings, the time to go to the ashram and the time to go to the guru is when you’re over 40. So this is actually in eastern traditions. And so I think the way I described this probably clarified a lot of things for people coming from eastern traditions about the way it works in the west. Because there is a big difference in western and eastern spirituality. There just is. Even if you’re a westerner you know and you’ve adopted eastern techniques there’s still a big difference.
Alan Steinfeld
But why don’t most people have an awareness, I mean we, we do because we’re on a spiritual path, we have that awakening, so we’re, but most people are not, and they may not even feel anything or something different, yeah.
Barbara Hand Clow
Well you know one of the reasons I ended up working at Bear & Company with Matthew Fox and then running Bear & Company with my husband for 20 years was that I came into Bear & Company as a medievalist, as an expert. I don’t have a degree in it but I was you know like very proficient in medieval mysticism. Like Hildegard of Bingen and Meister Eckhart and Julian of Norwich etc. And in medieval traditions there’s a very very strong theology about spiritual awakening and consciousness awakening when people are mystics. So it actually did exist in western culture. But the primary modus operandi of western culture since the rise of the age of science in 1500, 1600 AD, the primary modus operandi has been to act like energy isn’t real, consciousness doesn’t exist, you know all we are is a walking computer right, that’s all we are. And so it’s really western culture has gone into a deep denial. Where fortunately eastern cultures have maintained these traditions much better than the west has. You know if the west doesn’t figure it out, you know who’s going to dominate on this planet ultimately?
Joan
It’s great. It’s great. So I have a question for you Barbara. So because it struck me. So everyone goes through this Uranus opposition, right?
Barbara Hand Clow
Right.
Joan
But not everyone has the experience as Alan’s talking about, and you’re bringing up the western culture. It just seems to me like the mid-life crisis in America could be like and the menopause for women that that’s difficult is all that repression of this energy that wants to go wild because we all have this activation that could happen, but some of us, we must be holding that back. It just seems like it.
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah well there’s no question that life for a woman in the west from age 38 to 50 is pretty difficult, pretty difficult. A lot of marriages go on the rocks, a lot of people lose partners, because menopause does get all mixed up with this. And so needless to say, understanding what menopause is and then understanding what Kundalini rising is, is part of it. And I didn’t by the way I didn’t deal with that in the book because I’m just not an expert. But what I do know is so many women just get so mixed up at this point. So what makes it a little bit easier to understand this paradigm is to think of a tree. And to think of yourself as a tree. And so what happens from age zero to age 29, 30 is we go through a series of Saturn cycles where we create the structure and the form of the tree. And we create the trunk and we create the roots, and the branches are rising. And then the next, so the first key passage in all of our lives is Saturn return. And just like Uranus opposition, everybody gets a Saturn return. And what happens at Saturn return is something is going on in our lives that is going to keep us from being able to grow emotionally. Because the issues from age zero to age 30 were primarily structural, they’re primarily basic physical growth. And so what happens at Saturn return is we have an, we all literally not all but I’ve tried to get statistics and other astrologers have too. And I think that most astrologers would agree that 90% of people do their Saturn return. Now the question is now and I’ll go back to that in a minute what does that mean. Well, according to astrology, the more you are living out your transits, the more you’re growing. And when you get clients, and I’ve had plenty of them, where I get into okay what was going on at age 29 or 30, and since 90% of them do something there, it’s pretty easy to get through that one. Now what do I mean what do you do? Well people will get a divorce. They’ll have a child. They will start a major career or make a change in their career. They make some kind of really significant change in their basic life pattern so that they can start to grow emotionally. And then all the way through their 30s people have made a change, and then what’s happening is people are evolving emotionally. And so the Uranus opposition transit, the second key life passage, and there are all kinds of other transits here but these are really the real basic ones. With Uranus opposition, it’s an emotional crisis that has to be resolved because the emotional crisis is going to be in the way of the next level of growth. So that’s the reason we call it mid-life crisis. People go out and get red convertibles, they dump their wife or, the interesting thing about women at mid-life crisis, a lot of them just have to just get away. A lot of, I had a lot of clients where I did a lot of counseling with their husbands saying just let her go. If she has to go for four months let her go because she’ll be back. And women will come back but women feel so, you know tight and caught at the throat chakra level. Okay so the emotional crisis gets resolved, hopefully at Uranus opposition. So the question is how many people are actually doing it at age 38 to 44? And I have to say that it’s a much smaller percentage. I’d sometimes guess somewhere around 20 or 30 percent. And 30 years ago I would have said more like 10 percent. Because the culture comes right down on you and no you can’t be crazy and no you can’t, the woman can’t leave, the man can’t do whatever he’s going to do. And so the point is, if you can get through the emotional crisis that goes on with mid-life crisis, then the next transit is Chiron return. And Chiron returns, Chiron comes back to its birth position at age 51. You were right on the verge by the way in a couple of years we will have had the first Chiron cycle. Chiron’s going to come back to its birth position since 1977 in 2026. And I’m going to revise another book because of that.
Alan Steinfeld
And Chiron is the healing energy, the healer, the wounded healer, and is that it?
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah, Chiron is still very tied up with Uranus because back to Uranus for a minute which is an emotional healing and an emotional evolution in a person so that the energy can go all the way through their consciousness. And so if a person changes a lot at Uranus opposition, and really evolves emotionally, then what happens at Chiron return at age 51 is a spiritual awakening. And it’s really beautiful. Because what happens is all of that emotional angst and all of that emotional blockage has been worked out and then when Chiron returns to its birth position, it’s like we have a renewal and we have an awakening, and I mean I can certainly personally attest to this. It’s just a wonderful, wonderful experience. But if you have an emotional crisis and you have all kinds of stirrings at age 40 and you don’t do anything about it, which is basically true for the majority of people in the west. At age 50 they have a real crisis. I mean they can have terminal illnesses, they can have very, very serious crises because their consciousness hasn’t been allowed to grow in their bodies.
Alan Steinfeld
Wow, I’ve never heard anyone talk about astrology like that, it’s sort of like the royal path of initiation. Is what you’re laying out there.
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah and back to the tree image, what’s happened at that point is all of that emotional growth has taken those branches and the tree has gotten bigger and then all the leaves and flowers are reaching for the sky. And that’s that chirotic energy. I call it chirotic energy because it’s all of this is very erotic. Because it’s Kundalini. You know and all these transits are actually very erotic, that’s the essence of what we are as beings is if we can allow the, then that’s why I loved Larissa’s music. Because if we can just let that you know her music is so gentle because Kundalini is not violent and it doesn’t break your neck and give you a heart attack if you can just work with it so that it can flow. And her music actually I can see assists in the flow of Kundalini.
Alan Steinfeld
So are all those returns then another level of initiation when you have your Neptune return or your opposition and then your Pluto of course which…
Barbara Hand Clow
Oh yeah. Yeah, so at the end of Astrology and the Rising of Kundalini, what I wanted to do in the beginning with Liquid Light of Sex was to cover the three transits because that’s fairly easy for people to understand. And then in the latter part of the book I start getting into what happens with Neptune squares and oppositions and what goes on with Pluto. Because they’re equally intense and influential. But those three transits are really kind of like the growth pattern development transits. You know. And then Pluto polishes you off, and Neptune takes your Chiron return further into spirit, you know.
Joan
So you can actually chart someone’s Kundalini awakening experience then, in a sense, when it would happen, and how it might happen, and sort of how a person can deal with it, I’m thinking through the astrology.
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah, then in terms of a natal reading, then everybody’s experience at each one of these key transits is going to be different because of the particular aspects of their chart. So for example, this is where the astrologers can really be a great counselor. So in my chart, I have Saturn and Uranus conjunct at the top of the 10th house. In a t-square with the nodes of the moon, and Chiron is on my north node and my sun is on my south node. And so the reason I shook so much at Uranus opposition was because of that conjunction between Saturn and Uranus. So there’s a bunch of people who have Saturn and Uranus conjunct right in 1942 and 1943. And so then when an astrologer would counsel those people, they would immediately go to work on Saturn and Uranus. And as you know in the last couple of years we’ve been experiencing Saturn square Uranus. Last year three exact squares of Saturn and Uranus and then this year even though there’s no more exact squares they’re very close all year, and that’s the reason we’re living in the middle of a living hell.
Joan
When will it end? When will it just end? And when will all this end?
Barbara Hand Clow
And then I think that Saturn is very uncomfortable in Aquarius. Now this is a strange thing to say. But my astrological background is astrodrama. That’s where I really learned astrology and in an astrodrama we have a group of astrologers and each one of them plays a planet and we act out the sign, we act out the house position. And so for me astrology is really tactile. And I’m an Aquarian and I’m very familiar and comfortable with Uranus and Uranus is just simply uncomfortable in Taurus. And Saturn is uncomfortable in Aquarius. And I think that’s why the last two years have been so uncomfortable. Because I don’t know about you, no matter what I do, I can’t escape it. You know I can’t escape it, as soon as they finish with COVID then we’re going to do the Ukraine and then, it’s just constant because of the Saturn Uranus square.
Alan Steinfeld
But also for us Aquarians, it’s been also a lot of fun Barbara. It’s been a lot of activity excitement because the Uranian nature, we’re looking for the new, we’re looking for the unusual, the outside the normal, so I have to say I’m enjoying the transformation of the world, right?
Barbara Hand Clow
Yes, I’m enjoying it too but it’s difficult to live in the middle of this environment. Because being a Uranian, like in my case I have to move. I have to leave Canada because I won’t be vaccinated and I can’t cross borders. And so if you watch people closely, lots of people are moving here, they’re moving there, they’re doing that. So with Uranus, if you can, if you are in a position to move and change things, you’re going to do okay, but you know there’s a lot of people out there who can’t do it so easily. You know. And people are really suffering because they feel stuck and basically people feel stuck and tortured and wonder what’s coming next.
Joan
So you are right, you are very, very right about the energy of today of these times and the Saturn energy, thank God we have other energies coming in, but how long do you think this Saturn energy is going to be lasting that we need to learn to deal with? I mean I think it’s part of our grand initiation too, but… and I’m a Pisces actually, child…
Barbara Hand Clow
I think it’s going to get better next year. Rick Levine, you know he was the one who did the transits for 2022 this year in the Mountain Astrologer and he’s so accurate and he just said point blank, all the way through 2022 you’re going to be dealing with all the stuff that’s connected to all of the changes and shifting energies of 2021. He nailed it.
Joan
But I didn’t… yeah, I think once we’re out of it, and I haven’t, you know, I start to see some really positive transits in 2024, 2025. But so I don’t know whether it’s going to be that much easier in 2023, I don’t think so, but I don’t think it’s going to be as difficult as this has been.
Alan Steinfeld
You know, I have a question though Barbara, you know Pluto, Uranus, Neptune, these are only discovered in the last couple hundred years, and the ancients, even though they were astrologers from ancient times, weren’t aware of those influences. Is this because we are more evolved now in our emotional bodies as human beings and that they just didn’t feel those effects? I mean that’s my guess, is that we’re a little more complex human beings than they were a couple of hundred years ago.
Barbara Hand Clow
Well I find a lot of evidence that particularly with the Egyptians that they knew all about Pluto and Uranus. And so there’s issues of whether ancient sacred cultures knew a lot and then a lot of knowledge was lost. So what’s important for us in our period of time is that whenever a planet is sighted, then the psychological dynamics of that planet come in intensely into the human field. And so with Pluto in 1930, we had the rise of Nazism and in between two world wars and nuclear issues blah blah blah, and with Neptune right when Neptune was sighted suddenly we had mysticism and mesmerism and hypnosis, so what happens is the minute that planet is sighted the dynamics of that planet start becoming an active part of our psychology. So then the next thing that happens is that particular planet that’s been cited goes through one whole cycle. So it takes Pluto like 246 years to go through a cycle. And so we’re only really at this point have integrated Pluto quite well. Neptune just finished getting back to its sighting position in 2011. So it’s only been really since 2011 we’ve had a full cycle of Neptune. And then the interesting thing about Neptune that I think has been one of the most fascinating things we’ve all been living with is Neptune, when Neptune was cited it was in Aquarius. And so then as soon as it finished its whole orbit in 2011, then it went into Pisces. Well Pisces is the home sign of Neptune. So this has actually been a really wonderful thing that’s been going on because mysticism and contact with other dimensions and awareness of multi-dimensionality has been growing exponentially within human consciousness even though the culture is not reflecting it very much. I’m expecting us to have a huge Neptune explosion when Neptune goes into Aries, which is in a couple years from now.
Alan Steinfeld
But they are, more and more people are waking up to this kind of mystical awareness and you know along those lines I wanted to just ask about my favorite subject, making contact, and someone said it is Uranian and there are some interesting transits happening in 2023 and 24 about Uranus, can you let us know what you think about that?
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah I actually to be honest with you I haven’t looked at that. I did look ahead into 2024 and 2025 and 2026 and just trying to think of a good example of something that I spotted that just sort of knocked my socks off. But if I don’t have a card on this one I’m not going to get it, but…
Alan Steinfeld
That’s okay.
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah it’s okay. But we are I do think coming into a renaissance. I really really think that that’s happening and I’m looking forward to that.
Alan Steinfeld
What’s that configuration, the Uranian thing that will bring a Renaissance?
Barbara Hand Clow
See that’s what I was trying to remember, there’s a big transit in 2027 but that’s I don’t have a card on it and I…
Alan Steinfeld
It’s okay, it’s what you’re feeling is and I feel that too the Renaissance will be in technology and biology and just the fact that we’re not alone in the universe. I mean that’s…
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah. Well I think personally and you probably do too, I think that the big jump is going to come when people are in touch with other dimensions and beings in other dimensions. And right now there’s a big struggle going on to kind of use it for fear or manipulate it to get something out of it or whatever. And so what matters for each one of us individually is to maintain that contact ourselves. I’ve never asked more than I have during the last two years in my case to the Pleiadians for more fusion and more entry of Pleiadian love and energy in our world.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, and you’re very connected, you wrote The Pleiadian Agenda, Barbara is very connected to Pleiadian energy, and they are helping, huh.
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah they are. Especially with children. Because they really really care about the children and we have a lot of children who are suffering on this planet and it really helps me to know that the Pleiadians are helping them.
Joan
Helps us all to know frankly because I think it’s going to take miracles to clean up the planet from this pure 3d world it’s going to take miracles which come from above down. So any other things you’d like to leave us with first of all…
Alan Steinfeld
I just want to ask one question from the chat about climate change and all the things happening to the earth and you know are ignoring this earth mother we’ve been on. What do you see?
Barbara Hand Clow
Well first of all we’re in the middle of a cycle. And climate change and the way it’s being dealt with by the government and based on the Al Gore hypothesis etc has been used for the last 20 or 30 years as a tool of manipulation to take people’s money and tax dollars etc. And so when it comes to climate change we’ve got to start to realize that we’re in the middle of a cycle and when we’re in the middle of a cycle with nature we have to adjust to that cycle. Now I’m not going to downplay what I think each one of us should be doing. And I think that all of us are going to have to do more than we can really imagine to help our environment and to help the earth. But unfortunately governments and globalism are basically in charge of the dynamic. Now I’m seeing some positive things happening lately where okay my point of view is what the government should be doing is helping people, and helping people adjust and helping economies adjust and of course cutting down pollution etc. But when the government start creating businesses like carbon credits in order to manipulate people’s realities, I’ve got real problems with that, but I’m seeing some signs that more of the public money is going to be moving more toward helping people who are in the middle of difficulty and disasters. So it’s an endless topic Alan, you know.
Alan Steinfeld
No I know and it’s ongoing and it’s but Uranus is really I think our key to the Renaissance that’s coming isn’t it?
Barbara Hand Clow
I do think that’s true and I think the more we can open ourselves up to all these other beings and all these other dimensions, then we’re going to have a free flow of energy from in with different levels and then we’re going to start to have the technologies we need and the energy devices that we need in order to handle some of this.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. So one more question, and then because Uranus is so key in Kundalini and it’s so key at the time now, would you say that it’s a sort of Kundalini awakening for the earth itself, the Uranian energies that are now much more available because…
Barbara Hand Clow
I think that’s true. Yeah. I think that’s…
Joan
It really is, isn’t that nice to think of. I think there’s a universal awakening going on. So then if people don’t know what’s going on with energy then they have a very hard time.
Barbara Hand Clow
It’s the secret resistance that’s happening through the planetary configuration here and the activations you’re telling us that’s really encoded in our planetary alignment to wake us up. Right? That’s kind of my takeaway is that my gosh they’re all these different cycles that are really designed to awaken us when we’re ready. Which really are giving us a time chart of when to be ready to have that and then it’s difficult if we don’t awaken at that time because it can still cause chaos right in our life.
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah, that’s right.
Joan
Another key for astrology. You mentioned Rick Levine and I want to tell everyone he’s going to also be one of our panelists for the seven week series that Sheima’s putting on. So…
Barbara Hand Clow
Great astrologer.
Joan
Right and so any great astrologer, so that would be great. I just want everyone to know about that. How can people find you Barbara?
Barbara Hand Clow
Basically they can’t, because I’ve written… for example I’m sorry but speaking of climate speaking of climate change, if people want to really know what I think about climate change and cycles, they need to read Catastrophobia. Which is used to be that book used to be called Catastrophobia and now it’s called Awakening the Planetary Mind. And because to tell you the truth, understanding cycles is a big deal in terms of being more comfortable with what’s happening to us. And the best way to understand cycles is with astrology.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, because it’s all about that. So what could you then leave us with just so I mean as far as the conference here the Kundalini and you know how to be more aware of these cycles, what I mean what can each of us do?
Barbara Hand Clow
Fortunately Alan, this basic paradigm that’s in astrology and the rising of Kundalini really does it, and in terms of people nailing what’s happening to them and to their friends and children etc. So fortunately a lot of therapists use it, it’s really the paradigm in the book has really gotten around. Mid-life crisis for example is a good example of that and people all know about Saturn return. And so gradually these things are seeping into the culture. And other people are writing about it, and it’s happening.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, right. And you’re the author of how many books have you non-fiction and fiction…
Barbara Hand Clow
About 15. I think. Something like that.
Alan Steinfeld
But very important, The Pleiadian Agenda, I think I have the Liquid Light of Sex and this last three trilogies, of the Revelation trilogies, and thank you Barbara for your time and patience and you know holding the torch for everyone since well since I met you in the 1980s, you know you’ve been a light…
Barbara Hand Clow
I’m the granny, okay?
Alan Steinfeld
No but you have, you’ve helped people I mean because your contribution to the spiritual culture that’s emerging is what people need as a way-shower into this culture that me and Joan and Neil and everyone who spoke here is trying to build.
Barbara Hand Clow
Yeah and you too Alan. Making contact is fabulous.
Alan Steinfeld
Thank you.
Barbara Hand Clow
Just fantastic, yeah.
Alan Steinfeld
I actually have a series, thanks for the little plug, I’ll show people I actually have a series of videos coming up which is my making contact series and I’ll just show you.
Joan
But mind-boggling, I was on it the other night, I called Alan, I told him how fantastic it was, and I called Deborah to tell her too, by the way. Thank you for that. It was really a good conference. This is great Barbara. I it wasn’t a conference it was just… The launch of your seven week intensive.
Alan Steinfeld
Five week, yep. Okay. Sheima is a seven week, yours is five weeks. Okay. I just have this flyer here I’ll just show people now that we brought that up on the…
Barbara Hand Clow
And thank you too Joan by the way. For all the work you’re doing.
Joan
I’m so happy to be on here with you. I’m I just I like to listen, I really kind of like to see the big picture of it, and you’re giving us a lot of feedback about how our own charts, we have our own personal blueprint for our own Kundalini rising, you know whether or not we’ve done it or not it’s still probably right in there. Fascinating.
Alan Steinfeld
I just going to show this, this is the Making Contact series Barbara, five parts, we just did part one, and you can come if you’re interested, was part two is with Danny Sheehan and Stephen Bassett. Part three Caroline Cory, part four Linda Moulton Howe and Whitley Strieber.