New Realities recorded on February 21, 2026
Summary
Alan Steinfeld interviews journalist Ross Coulthart discusses his investigation into the UAP phenomenon, calling out mainstream media for its lack of serious coverage. He reveals insider insights on government cover-ups, alleged violent acts by aerospace companies to protect secrets, and the profound connection between UAPs and non-local consciousness. Coulthart also recounts a personal experience at Esalen involving psionic abilities and anomalous phenomena, expressing optimism about humanity’s spiritual evolution.
Transcript
Alan Steinfeld
Welcome to New Realities. My name’s Alan Steinfeld. If you’ve been watching this program, you know, obsessed with the UFO phenomena and the history and the undercurrent that’s going on. One of the, I would say, the premier journalists of our time is today’s guest, Ross Coulthart. How does an Australian journalist get the scoop on all these insiders in the US government?
Ross Coulthart
By using the skillset that I’ve been taught as an investigative journalist and doing what journalists should be doing, investigating the biggest story in human history. I got into this by complete accident, to be perfectly honest. I started out with a completely unjustified, a thing a journalist should never do, a confirmational bias. I left Australian 60 Minutes in 2018 where I’d been doing investigative stories for many years. I thought, “What’s a story that people tell me I can’t do?” And the biggest, most stigmatized, most taboo story in journalism is UAPs, UFOs, the phenomena of so-called flying saucers. I’ll be honest, I was very guilty of coming into it with a bias. I thought, “This is rubbish. I’m going to disprove it, and I’m going to make my glory by revealing the dark secrets of some American aerospace program that’s really flying these craft.” It was kind of accidental. I was still working for 60 Minutes and I was in Washington, D.C. and I sent a message to a person I’d met in Afghanistan. Quite a senior official. And I said, “Look, can I meet you in a bar and have a drink? Just I’m in town, can we have a chat?” I had an idea I want to talk to you about. And I kind expected him to laugh when I told him that I was going to write a book about UFOs. And I remember feeling quite uneasy when I said, “I’m going to write a book about UFOs,” he leaned across the table and said, “They’re real, Ross.” And I said, “Well, yeah, sure. We all know there’s anomalous phenomena, but of course…”
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
“Don’t, you can’t bullshit me. It’s American aerospace tech. Clearly, you guys have got something that’s sitting at Area 51, Nevada test range that is only a matter of time before we find out about it.” And he just kept on saying to me, “It’s real, Ross.” And in the end, it prodded my curiosity and I’m now, what’s this? Gosh, nearly eight, yeah, probably eight years later.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
I’m in a position where I’ve gone completely 180. I’ve realized we’ve all been lied to.
Alan Steinfeld
Exactly. Well, your interview with David Grusch, I feel was the third inflection point within the history of the phenomena. We had Roswell, ’47. And then we had the New York Times headline in 2017. And then we had the David Grusch interview, where no one had heard of you before. And suddenly, I was at Contact in the Desert, the room was packed, when your interview came on, and we all just opened our mouths and said, “This, this is it.” So you’re an important figure within the history of the phenomena.
Ross Coulthart
I’m actually very uncomfortable with being put on a pedestal.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, not…
Ross Coulthart
No, in the sense that I actually think that the story of this whole saga is going to be one of incredible journalistic neglect.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh.
Ross Coulthart
I’ve had it out with friends of mine in the New York Times, the Washington Post, major newspapers, major TV networks. I’m a member of a group called ICIJ, which is the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists. We’ve done international collaborations on tax fraud, on Big Tobacco, Big Pharma. And I can remember asking friends of mine in the group, “Why aren’t we looking at UFOs?” And we got this kind of default giggle, this kind of default ridicule. And I don’t think it’s at all justified. I think if any journalist did even the most basic research into this phenomenon, they would understand that not only is it real, that it’s the biggest story ever…
Alan Steinfeld
Absolutely.
Ross Coulthart
…and we’ve been lied to, and it should be investigated. I was only watching the exchange from the White House press corps when a correspondent asked a question of Karine Jean-Pierre in the White House press room a few days ago. And when he asked about aliens, there was this kind of little ripple of giggles like a bunch of nervous school kids. That’s not journalism.
Alan Steinfeld
No, it’s awful.
Ross Coulthart
It’s not journalism and I’m so tired of the White House press corps treating this like a joke, when David Grusch, probably one of the most highly cleared people in the US national security establishment went public, and was completely ignored by lame licks-spittles to the national security state, like the New York Times and the Washington Post. It’s breathtaking to me that the media are failing.
Alan Steinfeld
But do you think that’s because the Air Force purposely ridiculed people back in the 50s and it’s just been progressive like that?
Ross Coulthart
Sadly, I think it’s more than that now. I think journalists are being manipulated. I won’t name them…
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
…but the Wall Street Journal did a hit job on the whole subject of UFOs.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh yes, awful. Stupid.
Ross Coulthart
I mean, there are associations with at least one of those journalists, in fact both of them, have got connections either back into private aerospace at a very senior level, or one of them has had previous associations with a CIA front. Now, was the Wall Street Journal being used as an unwitting party, a proxy by the CIA or another intelligence agency to plant what was a deceitful and manipulative story into the national media? I see this happening all the time in America, it’s quite amazing.
Alan Steinfeld
You’re right. And that was the problem with the film National Geographic put out recently on Disney+, JFK to… wait. What was the exact term? JFK, yeah, UFOs. Because I really enjoyed that piece, but there was an omission from it, which was a huge hole. And then there’s an age of disclosure, a great film, but there’s a gap. They mention the legacy program and then they move on. The legacy program is where that information needs to be revealed.
Ross Coulthart
Look, I think to a large degree “The Age of Disclosure” is an attempt by the national security state to try and constrain the narrative.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s right. Because we don’t get to the core. There’s a huge hole in that film. They’re coming out and saying, “Yeah, if we had an NDA we could talk more,” but who are the legacy program people? That’s what I…
Ross Coulthart
I’ve got a pretty good idea of who are involved, but I don’t want to get sued.
Alan Steinfeld
Well…
Ross Coulthart
The other thing too is I have sympathy for the people who had the courage to appear in “Age of Disclosure”. They’re good people. They showed courage in coming forward. I thought it was a bit rich that James Clapper, for example, as a former DNI, made a very qualified statement about being briefed into a program or aware of a program that was monitoring UAPs. He knows a hell of a lot more than that, I know for a fact.
Alan Steinfeld
But it didn’t take us closer to the finish line.
Ross Coulthart
Let’s go back in history a little bit. What was going on in 2014, 2015? It’s the most incredible period in history with UFOs I think, because this is the moment when I do think the national security state thought Hillary Clinton was going to win the election.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Yes.
Ross Coulthart
And they began what I think was a very structured attempt at a controlled disclosure. They assumed Clinton was going to be president by 2015. And that she would be pushing for disclosure.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
So what did they do? They briefed Tom DeLonge. They created or instigated the… I suspect had an influence in the creation of To The Stars Academy. And they facilitated briefings by General Neil McCasland, General Michael Carey, two very senior US Air Force generals, to brief Tom DeLonge and others into an awareness of the fact that the United States was not only aware of a non-human intelligence on this planet, but that we’d recovered technology.
Alan Steinfeld
Mm-hmm.
Ross Coulthart
But they wanted to play down the technology part. I think that what TTSA was all along was really a structured narrative. It was intended to try and control the narrative, to minimize the level of disclosure to the public, to play down the level to which the United States has been able to reverse engineer this technology. And I think frankly, to attempt to conceal technology from the public.
Alan Steinfeld
Even if Clinton would have won, they were in place to play it down. Is that what you’re saying? Because you’re saying…
Ross Coulthart
I think the role was, they knew the game was up if Clinton became president.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
Because the interesting thing about this whole story is, to a great degree, Democrat presidents have not been briefed into this program. Whereas I’d say more Republican presidents have been. Maybe they’re seen as a safer pair of hands. I don’t know.
Alan Steinfeld
It goes back to Nixon and Eisenhower, Nixon was Eisenhower’s vice president.
Ross Coulthart
So I think that’s dangerous for a start, that you have a political whiff to the program, that it’s taken a politically partisan position. And more importantly, that there hasn’t been the proper disclosure to Congress. In fact, there hasn’t been any disclosure properly to Congress.
Alan Steinfeld
It’s totally illegal.
Ross Coulthart
And I think the problem is that we’re in a situation now where they’ve dug themselves in a hole. Because I think if they’re not quick, there’s going to be a catastrophic disclosure.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean, Congress isn’t quick enough.
Ross Coulthart
No, no. I think Congress is asleep at the wheel. I don’t think they give a flying hoot. I think the president needs to be quick. I think the national security state, the people in charge of the legacy program… If they’re not careful, the whole dirty secret is going to come spilling out in a way that it did, for example, with the Church Commission, exposing the CIA’s abuses in the 1970s.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s what I think needs to happen somehow.
Ross Coulthart
I do. I do think the best way of getting to the truth. I was very privileged as a journalist, I got to see Nelson Mandela’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa. And people who had been victims of the apartheid regime and people who had perpetrated crimes under the apartheid regime were encouraged to tell all in a Truth and Reconciliation Commission in return for indemnity. And I make myself unpopular with a lot of people in the UFO community, because I actually think that’s a good idea.
Alan Steinfeld
To give amnesty to those who have been keeping the secrets and those who’ve been…
Ross Coulthart
I think it’s perverse to try and criminalize or punish people. I think, certainly for people who’ve committed murders, I think capital crimes should be investigated.
Alan Steinfeld
But what is really the big secret? I mean, yeah, there’s technology, there’s illegal… I’m sure people in the military when they give craft to private industry, they’re getting a kickback or something perhaps. But what is really the big secret? Is it technology? It’s not aliens, because who cares about that?
Ross Coulthart
No, that’s the really interesting thing is I’ve had people say to me from within the program that there’s really no good reason.
Alan Steinfeld
Uh-huh.
Ross Coulthart
But the excuse that’s often given is fear that revealing, because I think you can reveal, and I think this is what Trump’s possibly going to do. We’re going to see a scenario where the president is encouraged by the national security state to do a controlled disclosure where what he does is, “Yes, there are non-human intelligences. There are aliens. Obama was telling the truth the first time. Right. There are aliens and they’ve been engaging with this planet for probably thousands of years. But we can’t tell you the rest, because this is foreign adversary stuff. We don’t want to tell China or Russia anything that gives them any kind of strategic advantage. So, I can’t tell you anymore.” Or they might actually just try and flat out lie and deny that they’ve got a reverse engineering program and say, “Look, we have recovered technology, but we really don’t understand it. And we haven’t been able to do much with it. And for that reason, this has to stay confidential and we don’t want to give the Russians and the Chinese any kind of an advantage.”
Alan Steinfeld
I hate that national security excuse.
Ross Coulthart
I actually suspect the real reason is, and I’ve seen this as a journalist myself, covering security stories, secrecy becomes like a cancer, a reason for itself. It’s kind of like meth for these security officials. They just get off on knowing secrets that the rest of us don’t have. I think it’s nonsense. I think the excuse of national security has become a mantra that is unjustifiable.
Alan Steinfeld
I agree. Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
I think that what we’ve got is a situation where secrecy is the reason aside from itself.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, Danny Sheehan asked Elizondo, “Are they really worried about national security?” And Elizondo seemed to say, “No, the higher echelons are really not worried about that. It’s something more.” But…
Ross Coulthart
I think one possible reason is, and I was shocked when I first discovered this. People have been murdered.
Alan Steinfeld
By who, and why? What?
Ross Coulthart
By the national security state, by private aerospace companies.
Alan Steinfeld
Because they were going to reveal what would have been… why would they murder? I mean, I think you’re right. But…
Ross Coulthart
OK, well, there’s one incident that I know of, and out of respect for the people who told me about it, I’m not going to reveal too much about what happened. But there was a blue-on-blue where forces that were part of the United States military were deployed from JSOC to go to a location in Mexico. And they were engaged by forces from a private aerospace company.
Alan Steinfeld
And because the private air wanted the craft as well? And they killed the guys.
Ross Coulthart
Yeah, it was actually their craft, and this was undisclosed.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh!
Ross Coulthart
And my understanding is, and I’ve had differing accounts about this, but certainly at least one JSOC soldier was killed. And there’s a question as to whether it was just not an out-and-out murder. I’ve heard one description that says that he was shot in the back of the head on his knees. And it was done as a demonstration of power by that private aerospace company, which is a very prominent private aerospace company.
Alan Steinfeld
Which is totally illegal though, I mean… But there is something imperialistic about the US going into Brazil, going into Italy, going to Canada, Mexico, and taking craft from other countries, isn’t there? Like an imperialistic attitude and approach?
Ross Coulthart
Well look, if I was the US, I’d be trying to get hold of as much of this technology as possible. I would be ruthless. Let me be clear. I’m not a critic of the national security state. We are at this stage in our history in more danger I think than ever before, with a complete nutjob in Putin, he’s an authoritarian thug in Moscow. We’ve got a lunatic in North Korea. And China is just dangerously authoritarian. So, there are good reasons for why the national security state exists and as a journalist, I’ve been made aware of things that have never been publicly revealed that have stopped us from catastrophe. So, I’m not totally critical of the national security state. What I am critical of is a lack of accountability and transparency. And ultimately, does your Constitution matter or doesn’t it? It’s a constitutional issue.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah. Well, it doesn’t seem like it matters to some people that are around and in office these days.
Ross Coulthart
Yeah, well, I do think that what lies at the heart of all of this is there’s going to be a feeble excuse put up when this finally does break, that there are presidential… there’s actually a series of presidential executive orders from the 40s through to the 50s which have enshrined the secrecy of this whole cover-up. I think as a Title 50 covert operation exemption. And I don’t know what the legality is of that. I’m not a constitutional lawyer. I am a lawyer by training, but I’m not a constitutional lawyer. But if a president, if a commander-in-chief, as they have done on numerous occasions, have asked to be briefed about the legacy program, about aliens, about what we know about aliens. And if they’ve been lied to, or told that they’re not cleared to know that, I just think that’s absolutely outrageous. Because how can a president be bound by a prior executive order? I mean, the whole principle of the commander-in-chief being the president of the United States is so that the president can make a fully informed decision about the most serious thing that any president can do, which is to take the country to war.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
And presidents make decisions that kill young men and women. It’s a horrible decision to have to make.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s why you’re right, we need a Church Commission by a strong executive leader to say, let’s pull it all out, let’s…
Ross Coulthart
You know what? I just think it’s pointless with Congress. Congress has become such a tame licks-spittle. It’s so controlled. I thought my politicians in Australia were pretty hopeless, but the American political system, it’s so corrupt. I mean, you’ve got politicians making hundreds of millions of dollars and people just laugh about the fact that somebody who’s earning a salary of a few hundred grand a year has got $400 million in assets.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. I know. There’s one more element we’re not really talking about here. That’s the phenomena itself.
Ross Coulthart
Sure.
Alan Steinfeld
So, is there a direct link between those in government or military with whatever the phenomena is? I don’t think we even know what it is, but there’s something out there for sure. And they could be landing on the White House lawn, a little cliché, but they are somehow, and maybe they’re manipulating politicians, maybe they don’t want it out. That’s the part that’s the biggest mystery. What is the phenomena up to? Why are they here and…
Ross Coulthart
Oh, gosh, I wish if I knew that, I’d know everything. I mean, I think certainly there are agreements.
Alan Steinfeld
Between the government and the others?
Ross Coulthart
OK, so let me explain. So, in his Defense Office Pre-Publication Security Review, David Grusch referred to how there were agreements. And in the interview that I did with him, I tried to explore that with him, and he had to say, look, I’m sorry, I can’t go any further than that. But I thought it was amazing that he mentioned agreements. That’s quite something. And remember this is evidence that he has verified under oath to the Congress. That’s really important. He is saying that there is some kind of agreement by implication between the United States and non-human intelligences. And what does the White House press corps do? What do the mainstream investigative media do? They just completely ignore it. And that to me, I think, is the key to this whole story. Maybe that’s the reason why we can’t know.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
You know, what did Trump mean today when he said that Obama had breached national security secrets by talking about aliens? How could there be national security secrets by talking about aliens if, as the Pentagon’s position is, there is no evidence of extraterrestrial engagement with planet Earth? What would authorize the Pentagon to lie on behalf of the government to the public in such a formal way and to make such assertions in the documentation that they’ve provided to the Congress? Either members of the Pentagon are going to face criminal trial for misleading the Congress and showing contempt to the Congress in future, or there is some legal protection that they’re operating under, that this perhaps this executive order that they’re clinging onto by their fingernails, this vapor thin thread to try and conceal the legacy program. And maybe, to give them an out, maybe there is something in the agreement with non-human intelligences that we’ve made that means they can’t reveal it to the public to protect us.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I know you don’t know, and I’d love to hear your speculation because there’s the Eisenhower… It’s a myth in a way. Eisenhower met with the aliens and…
Ross Coulthart
I don’t think that’s a myth at all.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, maybe in that, he said, okay, you can take some of our citizens and their DNA in exchange for technology. I mean, I don’t know. But what do you suspect the agreement was? You think it was the Holloman Air Force base?
Ross Coulthart
I do think the meeting took place at Holloman Air Force base, and I do think Eisenhower was involved. And I mean a lot of it’s on the historical record. Certainly there were agreements made. What those agreements were, I don’t know.
Alan Steinfeld
And there have certainly been alien abductions of humans from exchange…
Ross Coulthart
You know, it’s very funny. I would have violently disagreed with you about that a few years ago and gone, you know, that’s just crazy…
Alan Steinfeld
It is crazy.
Ross Coulthart
…crazy nonsense. And then I read John Mack’s book about abductions, and since I on my own show started soliciting people to talk to me about it, I’ve just been overwhelmed with good people who after a while, you just get overwhelmed with data points where you think, I mean, there is a point in journalism where you’ve heard so much firsthand testimony. Firsthand testimony is witness testimony. People go to jail and get sentenced to death on the basis of firsthand witness testimony. And so, when I’ve heard it from so many witnesses that they’ve been the victims of abduction, often military abductions. I’ll freely admit, the first couple of times I heard it I thought these people were crazy. I’m not so sure now.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, let’s look at that as a possibility, and all the things, all the strange things you’ve been involved with, and you know, maybe the psychic phenomenon. You also had talked to Whitley Strieber. And there’s something else about the nature of reality. Reality Check is checking to another level. So how do you put, if you were going to form a cosmology of all the strange things you’ve encountered in the last year, it would be more than a materialistic point of view, I think. That Jacob Barber thing was a beautiful moment in history.
Ross Coulthart
It was. I’m actually going to be talking about this in my speech on Saturday. I’m fascinated with the fact that when you scratch somebody from the legacy program and ask them what this is all about, they don’t get excited at all about aliens. They just take that for granted. They’re not really that interested in the technology. What they all start talking about is consciousness. And I’m fascinated by how in our understanding of quantum mechanics, quantum science. You know, the double slit experiment. How can a wave be both a particle and a wave at the same time? I mean, it’s utterly illogical. It’s the incommensurability of quantum science. How do we explain this? And the thing that blows me away more than anything else is the idea that what we call physical matter, our reality, it’s not the case that our consciousness is derived from the brain cells, the neurons that we’ve got in our brain. It would appear it’s all the other way around. Everything, matter, reality is derived from consciousness. This is a very, very difficult concept to understand. Believe me, I wrestle with it. I’m not a scientist. But the science, this is the hilarious thing. You’ve got materialist reductionist science for the last 5-600 years has said it’s not real unless you can see it, observe it, measure it, test it. And if you can’t do that, then it’s not real. And the problem we have is what this whole conference is about. Yes. There are things that people are describing, experiencing, verifying, witnessing, which don’t fit into that mechanistic view of science, that reductionist view, the deterministic view of cause and effect. Phenomena like psychical phenomena, which science, in order to deal with it, science just said, oh, it’s not true. It can’t be, therefore it isn’t. And now we’ve got wonderful people like Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell who’s done that great work with Julia Mossbridge and Ky Dickens to reveal the nonverbal autistic kids really are experiencing something that is a non-local consciousness form of communication. And that to me is I think the problem that we’re stuck in at this moment in the 21st century, that we have this I think dominant scientific materialist paradigm that dominates the world, and it’s wrong.
Alan Steinfeld
And it’s changing. That’s why we’re here this weekend.
Ross Coulthart
Sure.
Alan Steinfeld
And when I teach remote viewing, I learned it from Russell Targ, and then I went out in the world and taught 200 people at the Shift Network. There’s something about a non-locality of awareness that we have access to through probably the right brain, which is the Master, if you read Iain McGilchrist’s book, the Master and His Emissary. That’s what we’ve been misled that the left brain, the logical mind, thinks it knows everything. Well, what these autistic kids are showing us, it’s not about thinking. It’s about direct knowing.
Ross Coulthart
And dare I say…
Alan Steinfeld
Yes.
Ross Coulthart
I know this is going to sound corny, and I’ll sound like a total caftan wearing hippie. It’s all about love.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, that was what was so beautiful about the Jacob Barber…
Ross Coulthart
I know. I mean, let’s talk about that. It’s very funny with Jake because he really is, he’s a modern life James Bond. I mean, he’s trained Tier One level, Delta Force sort of level, STS 2-4 Air Force special forces level. He’s diverted into a secret program where he becomes what’s called a NOC, a non-official cover operative for the CIA I believe. He’s never told me, but I’m pretty sure it’s the CIA. And he becomes a kind of a superspy, working on plausibly deniable operations for the US. You don’t think of somebody like that who knows how to kill you in a hundred different ways as being somebody who starts talking about love and being overwhelmed by something.
Alan Steinfeld
And breaking down in tears on your show! National television!
Ross Coulthart
And he told me before he did it, he said, “Look, I know I’m going to cry. I can’t talk about it without crying.” And I said, “Well, cry away, brother.” And I think the thing about it is, what are we at? It’s now nearly two years since Jake gave that interview. Here’s a guy, people were saying to me, “Where’s the firsthand evidence?” You know, David Grusch wasn’t firsthand, you know, he’s only repeating what he’s been told, which by the way isn’t true. And so I thought, OK, well this one will knock them out the park, Jake Barber. What does the UFO community do? It spends probably 80% of the time trying to find a way of shafting him.
Alan Steinfeld
Not the people I know.
Ross Coulthart
No, but I truly have had it with the whole UFO community. They are the biggest bunch of bitchy, knife stabbing, bum biting, whining whingers I’ve ever come across. I truly have had it. All they do is whinge all the time. There’s this kind of point scoring.
Alan Steinfeld
You have to stay off Twitter though. Those guys are animals.
Ross Coulthart
No, no, no, but it’s just hilarious because it’s kind of like, you know, every time somebody like myself sweats blood to persuade somebody like David Grusch or Jake Barber to come to the podium and actually sit down and say as an honorable human being, “I want to testify. I want to tell you the truth.” Along come these bloviated blowhards on UFO Twitter who basically go, “No, no, it’s not true! No, he’s doing it for a CIA…”
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, it’s a bunch of people. Some of most of them in this room that do not… that honor the work you’ve had.
Ross Coulthart
No, no, no, no, but I just, I just wanted to take a swipe at them on the way through. It’s good fun. Because seriously, these people have risked everything.
Alan Steinfeld
I know.
Ross Coulthart
They have put… I mean, there were times during my dealings with Jake Barber where I honestly thought he’d be murdered.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
There was one period of time, I’ve talked about this before. At Contact in the Desert, actually, and I actually started crying on stage and I was so embarrassed I had, I had to turn my head and walk away from the podium. He’d told me that he was going to go and talk to the private aerospace company that he was nominally working for as an undercover operative. That was his cover. And that was where he’d been doing retrieval operations, at a place he euphemistically called the Range. And he said to me, he authorized me, we’ve both done a dead man switch.
Alan Steinfeld
Hmm.
Ross Coulthart
I’d say, “Seriously, we take this.” And he’d authorized me that in the event of him not being back within 48 hours, to push the switch.
Alan Steinfeld
Which means what, would the switch?
Ross Coulthart
Which means I would go public with everything I know about Jake Barber.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh. And you haven’t done that yet.
Ross Coulthart
I haven’t done that. And it’s essentially, I see it as my lifeline to stop these thugs from coming in and killing me or Jake.
Alan Steinfeld
Mm.
Ross Coulthart
Because they are thugs. They’ve murdered people. The company Jake worked for has murdered people. I know. I’ve… I just want to say that again. They have murdered people! A private aerospace company working for the US government has murdered people, probably with the authority of the US government to protect this secret. That’s what people like Jake and David Grusch are risking to go public.
Alan Steinfeld
So the secret must be so big, bigger than we maybe can imagine, maybe you know more. But I can’t imagine what would be… if it’s just equipment, hardware, if it’s consciousness, if it’s love… I mean, is it about changing the materialistic paradigm so capitalism falls apart, or something like that? I mean, what…
Ross Coulthart
I do think… I mean, it’s funny. I never bought into conspiracy theories about the petrodollar. But I’d never understood it properly. I was listening to, I think it was Anthony Scaramucci actually, he was on his show, The Rest is Politics US. And I love Anthony. I love him and Katty Kay, and they talk a lot about Trump. And he was talking about the significance of the petrodollar and how Kissinger went to the Saudis in the 70s and basically locked in that the only currency that can be used to buy oil is the US dollar.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
And in the recent years, China and Russia have both tried to break that by creating their own private trading.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s why they killed Gaddafi probably.
Ross Coulthart
And I think that’s what a lot of what Gaddafi was all about. It’s a lot of what Iran’s all about. Because Iran’s been doing trading with both Russia and China. Imagine if all of a sudden, overnight, let’s hypothetically assume that there is zero-point energy and that there is an unlimited source of energy that can be derived from the quantum vacuum. Let’s not be hypothetical. Let’s say it’s real.
Alan Steinfeld
Hal says…
Ross Coulthart
What would that do overnight to the top 100 on the US Stock Exchange? It would pretty much annihilate them. And if you’re the US government, the president, who’s thinking short term about the next four years, why the hell would you do anything to threaten the petrodollar? And I mean, that’s just a grim reality about politics, that the kind of people who enunciated principle and belief in constitutional rights and ideas, they don’t exist anymore. And we’re in a very bad period in politics where we’re not well served. And people think in the short term, they’re thinking 3, 4 years ahead, not what’s the best thing for humanity in 20 years’ time.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. So a paradigm shift is not on their brief really, because it’s going to save the world from toxicity, it’s going to make a generally equality. Of course they don’t care about that, politicians, but…
Ross Coulthart
It’s not their, it’s not their brief. No.
Alan Steinfeld
But it is the answer to the situation and the kind of death dive Western materialist cultures is in right now. And so we have to push for that as a disclosure population for the… maybe that’s a fantasy.
Ross Coulthart
Like really?
Alan Steinfeld
Are you really sure?
Ross Coulthart
I think it’s I’m sorry. I don’t mean… I’m a very straight talker.
Alan Steinfeld
No, I want to hear what you have to say.
Ross Coulthart
I just think it’s complete bullshit at the moment. I don’t think there’s any possibility at all of disclosure, unless Trump has a conniption because Obama’s challenging him on aliens and suddenly decides to go, “You know what? Bugger it.”
Alan Steinfeld
I don’t think Trump is smart enough to do that. So what do we do? You’re collecting such valuable information, not to put you on a pedestal, but some of your interviews have been huge to push this movement forward with hope and possibility. What do we do as a population, wanting to know what’s out there, wanting to meet the others? I mean…
Ross Coulthart
I think it could easily go another 100 years.
Alan Steinfeld
Mmm.
Ross Coulthart
I was just last week standing outside a location where I absolutely know there is a deep underground military base which has retrieved non-human craft, and is attempting to reverse engineer those technologies. I’ve spoken to people who operate inside that base.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
I’ve explored the different access points. I know the doorways. And in fact, I’ve provided that information to Congress. Other people have as well. You know what’s happened with that?
Alan Steinfeld
What?
Ross Coulthart
Diddly squat. Fuck all.
Alan Steinfeld
Because they don’t want the… Is it the petro… Is it money? Is it their… What is stopping them from, like a Luna?
Ross Coulthart
Actually she’s got… she’s got chutzpah.
Alan Steinfeld
Yes. Chutzpah.
Ross Coulthart
You know, and so has Eric Burlison. You know, maybe a what’s her name? Casio-Cortez has started to get interested. You know, there are a few. I mean, the senators are a dead loss frankly.
Alan Steinfeld
I know, it’s awful.
Ross Coulthart
But no, but the UAP caucus, frankly, there are a good bunch of people. Tim Burchett, love the guy.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
But they’re very weak and powerless. You know, even the chairperson of the oversight committee that Tim and Co. are part of, he has to approve any use of subpoena for example. You know, they’ve got a really rigid control over who can be called, what can be done. And then they’re using it. And the Senate Intelligence Committee, and the Senate Armed Services Committee, they are such a joke.
Alan Steinfeld
But things change. Like the Vietnam War, people were marching in the streets. They showed up in Washington. Black liberation, it was a people’s movement. And that’s the other aspect of this. There’s more and more experiencers coming forward.
Ross Coulthart
I don’t see any… I don’t see a people’s movement at all, frankly. I think it’s probably, you know, there’s obviously the people in this room, you know, we’re all motivated to find out the truth. But I reckon if you walked out the door and walked to somebody on the street and asked them about whether or not they should know about aliens, they’d just giggle and walk away half the time. There’s been such an effective psyop run on the public that this is a subject to be mocked and ridiculed. To the extent that even the elite of the press in America, the White House press corps…
Alan Steinfeld
What a joke.
Ross Coulthart
They giggle when somebody stands up and asks a question about aliens. I mean today…
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
You had a very, very good question. I wish I could remember the name of the guy who asked it, but young man stands up on Air Force One, doorstops the President and says, “Mr. President, what about this Obama comment about aliens?” And…
Reporter
Are aliens real?
Barack Obama
They’re real, but I haven’t seen ’em and they’re not being kept in, what is it? Area 51.
Reporter
Barack Obama said that aliens are real. Have you seen any evidence of non-human visitors to Earth?
Donald Trump
Well, he gave classified information out if he said that.
Reporter
So aliens are real?
Donald Trump
Well, I don’t know if they’re real or not. I can tell you he gave classified information out if he’s supposedly doing that. He made a, he made a big mistake. He took it out of classified information. No, I don’t, I don’t have an opinion on it. I never talk about it. A lot of people do. A lot of people believe it. Do you believe it, Peter?
Peter
Well, if the President can declassify anything that he wants to, so if you want to make an announcement…
Donald Trump
Well, maybe I’ll get in a lot of trouble. I may get in a lot of trouble by declassifying.
Ross Coulthart
There are a few things President Trump said that are incredibly important. The first is he acknowledged that what Obama said was classified. And it’s funny, a lot of people are latching onto the fact that Obama said, “Yes, there are aliens.” I actually don’t think that admission is the one that got Obama into trouble in the eyes of Donald Trump. I think if there was anything that Obama said that was in any way compromising, it was this.
Barack Obama
There’s no underground facility unless there’s this enormous conspiracy and they hid it from the President of the United States.
Ross Coulthart
That’s Obama very deliberately planting a seed. Because he knows there are deep underground bases. I know he knows, because he’s been briefed. Because the other thing he did very, very carefully in that Q&A, I was so frustrated, I was shouting as I was watching the video. He made a very clear delineation between what he was aware of when he was the President and after. He talked about “not during my presidency.”
Alan Steinfeld
Oh, oh.
Ross Coulthart
And the reason why is I am told, as presidents are allowed to do, he requested and received a briefing on UAPs post-presidency. And I’d challenge anybody from the White House press corps to go and ask President Obama that and see how he answers.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I will. But you are keeping us up-to-date. Whistleblowers are talking to… There is movement within this field.
Ross Coulthart
No.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, why do you keep doing what you’re doing? You’re making a big…
Ross Coulthart
Because it’s a bloody good story! It’s great. I mean, the thing I love about it as a journo is, I went into journalism because I was working as a lawyer, and in law you have to be constantly subservient and kowtow to authority, and basically say, “Yes sir, you’re the client, you’re paying my bills, I’ve got to be nice to you.” In journalism, you are encouraged to cause mischief. It’s fantastic! It’s so much fun! I couldn’t believe as a journalist that you could walk up… my first experience with an Australian Prime Minister. I was told we were going to go and do a doorstop of an Australian Prime Minister, who I will not name. And we turn up at a hotel room, and it was odd because I knew he lived in Sydney, but this was a hotel room in Sydney. And the person who answered the door was a Prime Minister in a dressing gown. And there was a young female lying on the bed who was not his wife. And I remember, this was my eye-opener to the world of politics, that there was this clear understanding that if you come in and you doorstop me, you’ll ignore the young Maori hooker on the bed and you’ll get on and do this interview in the corner and you’ll just ignore this young lady and the cigarette lying on the bed. And I remember thinking to myself, “My God, this is the reality of politics.” And the thing that all the way through my life is the deceit and the duplicity in politics. The number of times there would be leaks inquiries by politicians where the minister would stand up at a podium and say, “You know, that story by Ross Coulthart obviously involves the leaking of confidential information. We’re going to do a leaks inquiry.” And nine times out of ten, it was he who leaked the document to me.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
And the duplicity and lying in politics is what worries me, that there’s a grim reality with politics that the kind of people who enunciated principle and belief in constitutional rights and ideas, they don’t exist anymore. And we’re in a very bad period in politics where we’re not well served. And people think in the short term. They’re thinking three, four years ahead. Not what’s the best thing for humanity in 20 years’ time.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. So you have a great overview of this phenomena as good as anyone. People are coming to you. Is there a way, I know you said not for 100 years, but if you were in charge of disclosure, of bringing it out, how would you create the scenario?
Ross Coulthart
I would leak.
Alan Steinfeld
Aren’t people coming to you leaking?
Ross Coulthart
Yeah. I think there’s a possibility, sooner rather than later I suspect, that somebody’s just going to make a catastrophic disclosure because they can see the writing on the wall. One of the things that happens in a sinking ship is the rats leave very quickly. They start looking at each other and wondering who’s going to dob each other in. It happened in the Nazi regime in the fall of 1945.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, right.
Ross Coulthart
And I think if there are crimes that have been committed, people are going to start positioning themselves thinking, “Crikey, I need to get ahead of the pack on this.”
Alan Steinfeld
Well, there are, isn’t there…
Ross Coulthart
And they are already. Let me tell you, they are already. That’s why I’ve been talking about catastrophic disclosure. I’m on your tail, guys. I really am. And I’m not boasting about this, there are people talking to me from inside the legacy program. Not only do they want this story out, they can see that if they don’t do it, somebody else is going to write the narrative their way.
Alan Steinfeld
So it is happening. You’re saying to me…
Ross Coulthart
I think, you know, I honestly thought when Jake Barber came out publicly… The reason I’m cynical and depressed about the UFO community is I honestly thought when Jake Barber came out… Here is a guy giving them everything they want. Firsthand witness, testifying about his direct involvement in the retrieval of an alien spacecraft.
Alan Steinfeld
With footage that you supplied.
Ross Coulthart
With footage, but it wasn’t him doing that particular retrieval, that was another one. What fascinates me is the way that not just the UAP community, but the mainstream legacy media immediately didn’t look at the central issue behind the implications of what he was actually saying, which is: there is a retrieval program. I am a former CIA officer working under deep cover for an aerospace company who has been in retrieval programs. Now, I know Jake has testified to Congress. I know that because I took him there, we escorted him there and filmed him going into the building.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
I know the committee in Congress has heard his detailed evidence about literally, “This is where you need to go to find the alien flying saucers. These are the principals in this particular company who are involved in the cover-up and who liaise with these people in JSOC and the Defense Department.” Congress has been captured. I don’t know why. I mean, you saw it in the overturning of the UAP Disclosure laws at the end of last year. We had a unique opportunity to finally get into the National Defense Authorization Act laws that as Danny Sheehan would tell you, would have enshrined the right of any citizen to go to government and reveal all. One huge flaw with those laws by the way, was that they would have to go to AARO, which is the Pentagon’s derisorily stupid UFO office.
Alan Steinfeld
I know. Luna called them outright liars.
Ross Coulthart
They are outright liars. Yeah. I mean, they’re good people. There are some great people there. But people like John Kosloski are operating under DIA edict. They are under orders not to reveal what they really know.
Alan Steinfeld
So you’re saying there are people coming forward telling you there is leaking happening, but there’s not like someone standing up in front of Congress saying, “I’m breaking my NDA right now, and this is what’s happening.”
Ross Coulthart
I don’t know what it would take. I actually think that if a UFO landed on the White House lawn right now, there’d be some carping twat from UAP social media who would go, “You know what? It’s just a CIA plot. Don’t believe it.”
Alan Steinfeld
Right, it’s AI, it’s all that.
Ross Coulthart
Yeah, yeah. I truly, I just don’t get it. I don’t know what would take it. Even if Trump stood up and said, “UFOs are real, aliens are real.” I don’t even know if people would believe it.
Alan Steinfeld
Maybe it has to take a change in consciousness. You know, I knew John Mack, and he said UFOs are like an outreach program from the cosmos for the consciously impaired.
Ross Coulthart
OK, well this is where I think it’s getting interesting.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
When you started talking then about consciousness, I’ll freely admit, maybe three, four years ago I would have thought, “What a bloody hippie.” You know, I would have thought, “What a load of cobblers.”
Alan Steinfeld
Because you’ve been brainwashed right.
Ross Coulthart
Yes. And the thing that I find fascinating is I’m talking about this on Saturday. I’ll tell you the story. In one day, about two years ago, I spoke to three people in a day, and they were all telling me about these downloads they’d been getting. Two of them were scientists, one of them was an artist. And I deliberately lumped them together because I wanted to be able to concentrate as I listened to them, to know how to question them methodically. And it’s a huge amount of work. Often it’s, some of these interviews take six hours. You know, really long. And what really impressed me was when I said to them, “Take me through how these downloads happen. You know, what were the colors involved?” And I remember one of them just casually said to me, “Oh, the being was blue.” And I went, “What? You hadn’t talked about beings before.” I went, “Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there were beings there as well.” You know, going, “Wow!” And then at the end of the next conversation, another one said to me, I said, “What color was it?” I just used a psychological thing. I meant I used “it”. I didn’t say what was I talking about. I just said, “What color was it?” And he said, “They were blue.” And I said, “What was blue?” And it was kind of like they then went, “Oh shit, cognitive dissonance. Yeah, the being. Yeah, yeah, the being was blue.” Three people in one day referred to blue beings. And then over a week, five people. So I thought I’ll just put this out there. I like just planting a seed. And I said so, I want to talk to people today about the blue guys. Has anyone out there who’s had these experiences, these downloads, has anybody had encounters with blue beings? I’m going to call them the blue guys. Oh my god. Hundreds. I’m still getting them. Hundreds of people from all over the world. Data points, independent data points. The guy in Zimbabwe, I remember, just screaming at me, wanting to tell me about what happened. It was fascinating!
Alan Steinfeld
So what do you make of it? Do you…
Ross Coulthart
Okay. I think it’s possible, going back to what we talked about at the beginning of this interview, if we’re talking about a non-local consciousness…
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
If everything is connected in space and time, what if what we are is plugged into some kind of cosmic internet? And it’s got a kind of an intelligence behind it. And what if it manifests to people as blue beings? I’ve got no idea. I can’t explain that. I’ve got no way of explaining it. It sounds completely crazy. But what if the whole thing, UFOs, anomalous phenomena, psychical phenomena, downloads, telepathy, remote viewing, all of that. What if all of it is enhanced or achieved through the capacity of the human brain to operate like a transducer?
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
That this idea of our brains as a meat computer, that all it does is process, neurons process information. And I remember a really depressing book written by Stephen Hawking, which basically talked about how we really don’t have free will.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
Because we are essentially meat computers. And Hawking pushed in his book the idea that the idea of consciousness is really an illusion. That we’re not really conscious. That this is just a pretend thing because when we die, our brains rot and whatever we were rots with us.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, that’s his materialistic perspective.
Ross Coulthart
That’s the mechanistic materialistic reductionist view of humanity.
Alan Steinfeld
Yes.
Ross Coulthart
And here I was getting literally, I mean, it’s got to the point where I’ve got, I’ve got a file on my computer called Blue Guys. I just go, “Oh Christ, there’s another one. I can’t be bothered reading that right now.” I promise you, I do read them eventually, but there’s just hundreds of them. And people are beautiful because I think the best witnesses are people who speak from the heart and engage with the passion of what they encountered.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
And hundreds of people have contacted me wanting to talk about the blue guys.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Well you know…
Ross Coulthart
And so, I don’t know what the answer is, but what I am persuaded to is we are not meat computers.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, maybe you’re part of this whole situation and you’re a conduit for the truth.
Ross Coulthart
Okay. And so that’s what I’m working towards.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
What I’m working towards is the idea, and thank you for leading me on that. I’m working towards the idea that maybe the NHI have given up with governments. Because I think they want to be known about.
Alan Steinfeld
I think so too.
Ross Coulthart
And I think what’s happening, I don’t buy the idea that the drones phenomena, so called, that existed over supposedly the East Coast and supposedly over just New Jersey. It’s worldwide.
Alan Steinfeld
It is. It is.
Ross Coulthart
Worldwide people have been experiencing anomalous phenomena, perhaps representing itself as drones or as implausible aircraft, which aren’t drones. It’s manifesting its… the phenomenon, if as we understand it has a capacity to manipulate human consciousness, our perception, and probably even the cameras that we use. Why is it implausible to think that there might be a non-human intelligence that is slowly acculturating us to the fact of its existence.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s, you’re right.
Ross Coulthart
Trying to avoid an ontological shock by slowly twigging our awareness. And I’m really struck, one of the things I love doing is I love talking to scientists. Even though I’m not capable of understanding most of a scientific American article beyond about the first three paragraphs. I love engaging with scientists. And, Years ago, he keeps on coming back to me all the time. There’s a guy called Professor Michael Denton, who I interviewed when I was about 25. And he’s a, I think a genetic biologist. I’ve forgotten Michael, if I’ve forgotten the correct term for you, but he talked to me about how the theory of evolution was only a hypothesis.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
And it didn’t make sense, because he’d looked at the rates of mutation that occur naturally in mutation. And it didn’t explain the development of the human forebrain. It didn’t explain everything about our universe. It couldn’t possibly have been developed with just the theory of natural selection. And it’s really interesting, because the term he used was a cosmic shove.
Alan Steinfeld
Mm-hmm.
Ross Coulthart
The idea that there was something external that was pushing humanity in a certain direction. And maybe, I hope it is, maybe it’s a benevolent intelligence that’s just gently guiding our evolution.
Alan Steinfeld
And maybe you’re a part of that big picture, because you’re bringing truth to people from insiders that wouldn’t normally speak. Do you think somehow you’ve been directed to, or not to…
Ross Coulthart
I’m worried if I said yes, people would accuse me of having a God complex. I honestly think I’m just a journo telling a story. And that’s the thing to me that I find most amusing about this is, I mean, look, I’m flattered by the attention that I get from people who care about this subject matter. They’re very kind people and I can’t walk through an airport these days without being stopped by somebody wanting to talk about UFOs. And that’s great. I love it. I love being engaged with by my audience. But I honestly believe this should be a story that is being pursued by all journalists.
Alan Steinfeld
I think it’s the most exciting thing happening ever to the human race.
Ross Coulthart
What are the key mysteries, the conundrums that we all ask ourselves as we start getting philosophical? The first is, are we alone? And the second is, what happens to us after we die? Because the implications of this are, what we just talked about, non-local consciousness. It explains both.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. It does.
Ross Coulthart
It explains the phenomenon in the sense that there is some kind of telepathic communication, psychical phenomenon, psionic ability that we can connect with a non-human intelligence, that perhaps is guiding our evolution and are beginning of our understanding about what we really are. But it might also be that when we die, we’re not a lump of meat that just rots into the ground and disappears and made no impact on the world. Maybe, just maybe, we have a soul, a consciousness that lives after our death.
Alan Steinfeld
Exactly. Well…
Ross Coulthart
I think you’ve named it, that near-death experience, afterlife experience, the phenomena, the autistic kids, that seemed to be connected to this cosmos and they just channel these answers. It means that reality has to be different than what we’ve been told. And we’re in the midst of a whole paradigm adjustment where it says that these things are real, consciousness exists. Oh, absolutely. And I mean, as I said earlier about the double slit experiment, quantum mechanics has proven scientifically, we know that the universe is not explainable in the mechanistic, deterministic way that conventional, orthodox science tries to do. And it’s funny, because I’ve got a lot of physicist friends, a mate of mine in Australia who I went through university with, went to Stony Brook. And he ended up abandoning physics because he got so depressed about the fact that there is this incredible dilemma at the heart of modern physics, which is, it doesn’t make sense!
Alan Steinfeld
It doesn’t.
Ross Coulthart
String theory is the dominant paradigm that has been sought to explain physics for the last what, 50 to 100 years. And it doesn’t work. It doesn’t explain our universe. And as things come out more and more in quantum physics, and we realize more and more that waves are particles, particles are waves, that everything is connected. You know, there is no reality, that consciousness influences matter and reality. It’s the complete opposite of that deterministic, mechanistic science that we’ve relied on since Descartes.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
And it’s not working. It doesn’t explain our universe.
Alan Steinfeld
It doesn’t explain, you know, what they call the hard questions of science. Like, how can these cells create this great awareness? That’s the hard, how does it create consciousness, this material thing create this immaterial awareness? And Diane Hennacy said, consciousness is only the hard problem if that’s the end result. But if you start with consciousness, then we create a world where thoughts…
Ross Coulthart
I mean, look at what’s happening with Di and Ky Dickens and Julia Mossbridge at the moment. I mean, they came on my show and they talked about the fact that they’re in the process of preparing a paper that will be hopefully the world’s first peer-reviewed proof, definitive proof of this non-local consciousness.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
And you know what? They know, and I know, that orthodox science will hunt them down like game, and kill them mercilessly theoretically, you know, with their attempts to disclaim this heresy. It’s just like Copernicus. I mean, it is incredible what we are in at the moment. We are in a system where there is a dominant orthodox paradigm that is suppressing the understanding of what science has already verified is real anomalous phenomena.
Alan Steinfeld
SRI proved that 50 years ago with remote…
Ross Coulthart
Oh, but they didn’t. No, no, but they did. Of course they did.
Alan Steinfeld
Of course, I know. But there’s, like you say there’s government agencies that are using that all the time. Elizondo said that on your show when you said, “Is it really true?” and he said, “Absolutely.”
Ross Coulthart
Yeah, I know. I’ve spoken to people who are doing remote viewing for the Defense Department right now.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, someone here in the audience, Dr. Hurtak saw the pyramids on Mars before NASA published it. He called them up and said, “I’m getting a vision of pyramids on Mars.” And they said, “By the way, here’s the pictures.”
Ross Coulthart
I tweeted this afternoon actually, about an almost perfectly cylindrical object that was found on the surface of Mars by the rover. And all I did was just blow up an image that a podcaster had put up on his podcast, and basically said, “Isn’t it amazing what the climate of Mars can do? It’s shaping now perfect cylindrical objects.” And within probably two minutes on the comments, I just sat there and watched. Within two minutes on the comments, and you can always see them because they’re normally completely anonymous, you know, they call themselves 123X.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, I know.
Ross Coulthart
I know, because I’ve spoken to somebody who works in one of these units, there are military units that go around sowing disinformation in the comments on social media to try and play down public interest in this subject matter.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
I’ve just done recently a series of stories with a wonderful guy, Dr. Manali Derakhshani, who just went through a lot of what’s been previously revealed by people like Ken Johnston and Richard Hoagland. Anomalies on the moon. It’s had one of the biggest hits that we’ve ever had on any story, there’s huge public interest in the fact that NASA is clearly lying and concealing evidence.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
There is obvious evidence of digital smearing, of fakery, to try and disguise what’s really there on the moon.
Alan Steinfeld
And the face on Mars as well, they try to disguise it. So Ross, putting all this together, talk about how your world view, it seemed like it’s shifting, where are you at now? If you want to share personally… like, you’re not the mechanistic like…
Ross Coulthart
Uh, how do you see the world? I’m certainly a more spiritual person than I ever was. I’m also more optimistic.
Alan Steinfeld
Mmm.
Ross Coulthart
I had an event at Esalen…
Alan Steinfeld
Mm-hmm.
Ross Coulthart
…with a psionic called Jordan Jozak.
Alan Steinfeld
I’ve heard about that one.
Ross Coulthart
Jordan’s probably at the time the lead psionic for Sky Watcher.
Alan Steinfeld
Mm-hmm.
Ross Coulthart
And I introduced him to Sky Watcher because he reached out to me and told me his story and I said, “Hey, you should meet Jake Barber and the rest is history.” And he’s been doing a lot of the successful inviting or summoning for Sky Watcher, where they’ve been able to obtain imagery. And before Sky Watcher got up and running, Alex Clocus, who’s the financier for Sky Watcher, invited me to Esalen, which is a beautiful…
Alan Steinfeld
Where all this began, in Esalen.
Ross Coulthart
Yeah, it did. And they’re beautiful people there. Absolutely stunningly beautiful people there, very spiritual and there was a real beauty about the place that really struck me. One thing Alex did that was very clever, and I don’t think there’s enough of this in Ufology… the importance of the feminine. The feminine divine. He deliberately made it 50% women, 50% men. I think that made a huge difference.
Alan Steinfeld
Mm-hmm.
Ross Coulthart
From the get-go, there was a feeling of reciprocity, love, kindness. There was a real feeling, a good feeling there. And I’ll freely admit, I’m a terrible skeptic and cynic. So I thought, “Oh, what a load of crystal-gazing bullshit, you know, this is complete rubbish.” We were invited by Jordan to come to a summoning. He was going to do a demonstration of his psionic abilities, and I thought, “Oh yeah.” And it was at 10:30 at night. And at 4:00 in the afternoon, he came to me and he said, “Ross, I have a really clear picture in my head that we’re going to see a blue hexagon tonight.”
Alan Steinfeld
Mm-hmm.
Ross Coulthart
And I said, “Gee, that’s a big call.” So 10:00 at night, Jordan lies down on a yoga mat. Next to the Pacific Ocean, it’s just a magnificent night. The stars are out. It’s gorgeous, beautiful night. We’re all full of love. We lie down on yoga mats and we all start meditating and inviting whatever it is to come and be with us. And within a few seconds, Jordan says, “I’m engaged.” And he says, “Horizon.” So I look to the horizon, and out there on the horizon… blink! These two objects wink into existence. They’re two orbs. And then this… I won’t embarrass him, he’s quite a prominent Silicon Valley gazillionaire… Chinese guy who was at Tiananmen… He stands up and he goes, “We love you! We love you! Come closer! Come closer!” And I can’t quite believe this. I’m thinking, “This is crazy shit.” You know? And they come closer. And then the whole audience gets up and starts getting excited and going, “Come closer, come closer. We love you!” And expressing love. I’m sorry, but it’s true! Expressing love.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
And they are responding very overtly to expressions of love. They come fairly close, and then after a while, they fade away and zoom off.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
And I say to Jordan after that, I think, “Wow, that was pretty cool! Didn’t see your blue hexagon though.” And almost simultaneously, you have to understand, Esalen’s got these beautiful hot springs.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, I know those tubs there.
Ross Coulthart
And if I was an alien, I would have been doing what the aliens did, which is, there were all these boys and girls, buck naked in these hot springs having a really nice time together and enjoying the night, sort of sitting in the hot springs looking out over the Pacific. I would have been doing that too if I wasn’t a man of 63 and thinking that it’s probably a bit creepy for a guy my age to be sitting in a bath full of supermodels. So I stayed a respectful distance. But it was hilarious because one of these young women came running up to me because I’d spoken to them the previous night, and she said, “Ross!” And she showed me what they’d just photographed.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh!
Ross Coulthart
And we went and had a look. There on the beach was a blue hexagonal orb. And they’d all been sitting in the hot springs and as they were sitting in the hot springs, this kind of translucent blue mist had started appearing. And the photographs I’ve got, you can actually see faces inside the mist. I think they’re faces.
Alan Steinfeld
I’ve seen things. Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
And it’s phenomenal, because as they watched, and eventually as we watched, you know, it moved and sat down on the beach and turned into a blue hexagon. That was the moment where I went, “Holy… this is real.”
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
And I’ve seen it quite a few times since.
Alan Steinfeld
But the fact that it’s real now, because it is real for you, how does that change everything else that has come up to that point?
Ross Coulthart
It makes life fun!
Alan Steinfeld
It certainly…
Ross Coulthart
It really does. It’s kind of like, “Well, I know they’re lying. Whatever it is, at least that, appears to be benevolent and extraordinarily kind. And probably sooner rather than later we’ll know the answer.”
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I hope so. And I hope you keep going with all that you’re doing, because your work is making a difference for a lot of people.
Ross Coulthart
Thank you.
Alan Steinfeld
Absolutely. We need more people like you. Not to put you on a pedestal, but you’ve had enough insight and courage to go after the people who had the secrets: Jacob Barber, Gary Nolan, David Grusch. I want to know how you got to meet him, how you did that whole thing…
Ross Coulthart
I’ll tell you that story one day.
Alan Steinfeld
All right.
Ross Coulthart
It’ll be too dangerous to tell it in full now.
Alan Steinfeld
You do get, just one last question. You do get some information that seems to be contrary, like the fact that the Tic Tac was a military… a lot of people had a problem with that because…
Ross Coulthart
You know what it was? I actually think a lot of people have got this kind of, it’s all got to be aliens.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
You know, and we can’t let something challenge our dominant paradigm reality. And I suspect that there are people pushing the alien’s Tic Tac, ’cause I’m not saying all the Tic Tacs are…
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Ross Coulthart
I’m saying that one was.
Alan Steinfeld
Even though Fravor saw it?
Ross Coulthart
How could Fravor know? How would he know one way or the other?
Alan Steinfeld
By what it did. Yeah, he doesn’t know if it’s Lockheed Mar…
Ross Coulthart
Yeah, I’ve got sources who’ve told me that Lockheed Martin was operating that Tic Tac.
Alan Steinfeld
Are you sure they’re not giving you disinformation to…
Ross Coulthart
Well, they could be, sure.
Alan Steinfeld
Well how do you know when someone comes… what’s your criteria?
Ross Coulthart
Because what journalists generally use is they use multiple sources. Multiple independent sources as a way of verifying information. It’s what police do when they’re investigating a case, you know, you need a witness, you get a statement, you look at that statement, you test the evidence. You go to another witness, you independently interview them. You see whether that evidence matches that evidence, and see what the inconsistencies are. It’s basic investigative journalism and police work. It’s what lawyers do when they test a case under cross-examination. And I have spoken to people who have consistently told me that. I may be wrong.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I don’t know, but…
Ross Coulthart
I hope it is aliens, it’d be great if it was. And think about this. Kevin Day, on the USS Princeton in the days prior to the Tic Tac incident, had seen, I think dozens of such objects on his screen. He didn’t know if they were Tic Tacs or not.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart
But he saw on his radar screen dozens of such objects that were clearly not US technology.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, so…
Ross Coulthart
So there was clearly something there. I think the cover-up has been so phenomenally effective. I’m cynical about whether there’s anything that will prod the needle.
Alan Steinfeld
No.
Ross Coulthart
I sometimes wonder if there’s like a mental psychical gag on the planet’s consciousness that stops them actually understanding…
Alan Steinfeld
There were 200 people in the room on June 5th, 2023 when you aired the Grusch interview on NewsNation. They said “Contact in the Desert”… maybe not…
Ross Coulthart
Yeah, but there are, what is it, 8 billion people on the planet and most of them think aliens are bullshit.
Alan Steinfeld
They’ve been brainwashed. They think that all they’re here to do is sit in front of a television set. So…
Ross Coulthart
So I’m not saying there aren’t alien craft buzzing the California coast. What I’m saying is, we need to be very careful that we’re not being misled by sections of the national security state that don’t want you and me to know what they’ve developed and what they’ve been able to reverse engineer. And particularly how they’ve been able to jury rig non-human craft in a way that allows them to operate those craft, probably psionically.
Alan Steinfeld
Maybe.
Ross Coulthart
That’s the story.
Alan Steinfeld
It could be. And people talk about their minds melding with the craft, or the alien consciousness driving the craft. Because they go inside there’s no…
Ross Coulthart
That’s what I saw at Esalen!
Alan Steinfeld
Uh-huh.
Ross Coulthart
Yeah. I do believe Jordan was inside, whether you can call it a craft or not, something.
Alan Steinfeld
So my contention is whatever those aliens, whoever they are, we have the same facility as human beings to do like Jordan, but he’s maybe more developed. But each of us have that capacity if we could just break out of the shell, the prison that culture, society, politics, media has put us in. We have to break out. But your voice is a wedge in this little narrow band of being able to think what consciousness is.
Ross Coulthart
I hope you’re right. I love that idea, you know, I love Harry Potter. I love that idea of a little boy being told, “You’re a wizard, Harry.” And I love the idea that we’re all capable of these abilities and we just don’t realize it.
Alan Steinfeld
Let’s try some remote viewing.
Ross Coulthart
I would genuinely love to learn how to remote view. One of the fundamental problems I have is I’m working so hard at the moment that every time I try and meditate I fall asleep.
Alan Steinfeld
Come to our class on Sunday. We’ll give you a private lesson.
Ross Coulthart
Sure. You’re on.
Alan Steinfeld
Because all you have to do is get out of the way, and your consciousness goes to the target with intent. Anyway, Ross, I appreciate you, appreciate everything you’re doing. You are at the edge, cutting edge of this phenomena, and maybe it’ll never happen, but at least you’re trying to make the truth possible, feasible and tangible for people, and that’s making a difference.
Ross Coulthart
It’s fun doing it along the way. Thanks very much, Alan.
Alan Steinfeld
I very much appreciate you.
Ross Coulthart
Cheers. Thank you.
Alan Steinfeld
Ross Coulthart. They appreciate you.