New Realities recorded on October 18, 2011
Summary
Alan Steinfeld interviews Whitley Strieber, one of the most famous abduction cases in history. He speaks about his personal extraterrestrial experiences, his book ‘Solving the Communion Enigma,’ and how contact with enigmatic visitors relates to the evolution of human consciousness, the soul, and the integration of joy. Today, Whitley is still paving the way for all abductees to tell their story and brings the community together through his site UnknownCountry.com. The above comment, was recently left at UAPCon 2, portrays Whitley’s dedication to revealing the truth.
Transcript
Alan Steinfeld
Welcome to New Realities. This is Alan Steinfeld. On this program, I explore the evolution of humanity, where are we going as a civilization. And at the heart of that, I feel, are beings that may exist in other realms, in other dimensions, and other worlds. Tonight I’m very happy to be talking to Whitley Strieber, who’s one of the pioneers in that kind of research and also based on his own experience. And he’s going to be one of the featured speakers this weekend, October 22nd, 2011, in New York City at the Friends of the Institute of Noetic Sciences Conference on UFOs and the Evolution of Consciousness. So if you go to the fions.org website, you’ll get all the details. Whitley, just to give a little introduction about what he’ll be doing. The title of his conversation will be The New Visitor Consciousness. He has a new book coming out called Solving the Communion Enigma by Tarcher Penguin. Welcome, Whitley. Thank you for being here.
Whitley Strieber
Well, I’m glad to be here.
Alan Steinfeld
For so long, what’s made you so important I feel in this field is that, first of all, you’re a writer. You can communicate your ideas and experience and reach people on an emotional level about the reality of what happened to you. Thank you for your contributions on that level.
Whitley Strieber
Well, thank you.
Alan Steinfeld
Solving the Communion Enigma. It was always a little strange why you first called the book you came out with about your experiences Communion. Can you just go into that a little bit because it was a communion of sorts, but your experiences have been so vast and multifaceted that I just wanted to start a little bit there and just where you are in this evolution.
Whitley Strieber
I initially titled the manuscript Body Terror because it was about what I felt was a terror that was beyond anything I had known, a terror that was absolutely physical in its origin. I wanted to communicate that this had been a very much of a physical experience, which was in my mind at the time even the strangest thing about it, because all of the contextual cues that I picked up from it came from nightmare and folklore and so forth. But certainly not from physicality until my doctor said to me, Whitley, you’ve been raped. That made it essentially physical in nature. But then there was more to it. By the time I sat down to write the book, the initial disturbance and the violence of it had worn off. I had come to feel that what had happened to me, the violent things that had happened to me, had been more in the nature of someone attempting to slap me awake. I felt as if the human being is in a really profound state of sleep, a deep hypnosis, which I now liken to the condition of the fetus in the womb. And this slap was what happens when you come out. So because by the time another six months had passed, the experience had begun to enrich me in ways that were really very unexpected. And an intimacy, both physical and emotional as well as spiritual, was born. And that’s why I called it Communion, much to the annoyance of many Catholics. I can’t even go to the local Catholic church here because they think it has something to do with a heretical vision of Catholicism, which of course is very far from my thinking.
Alan Steinfeld
But how did it enrich you? I mean, you were traumatized, of course, physically, but I also would say psychologically when you confront beings like that who are so beyond our understanding of reality, that’s traumatic. How were you able then to take that and integrate it into this kind of beneficial experience in a sense?
Whitley Strieber
It was always a beneficial experience in that even the initial encounters woke me up to the presence of this very, very enigmatic intelligence that is still terribly enigmatic to me. In that sense it was always beneficial. But what happened afterwards was I made a decision, when I realized about six weeks into the experience, probably sometime in February of 1986 I would think. When I realized that it had been real, that it had been a physical experience and that it was not the result of criminal activity. I had thought initially, and my doctor had thought, and also the psychiatrist initially, Dr. Klein, had thought that what I was dealing with was an assault by people. It never occurred to any of us that it wasn’t an actual physical assault until Dr. Klein’s hypnosis threw a monkey wrench into the thing and we weren’t anymore sure what to think. When I realized that in some way it had been physical and probably was not an assault by people. I began to go out in the woods again at night to try to engage with whatever was doing this, whatever was there, if it was even still there I didn’t know. The engagement occurred on many, many different levels and evolved over the next 11 years. Even when I first started writing Communion, I had come into contact with the entity that’s face is depicted on the cover in many different ways and had learned that this person, and I’m not sure to this day that it was an alien at all, or is, if she is an alien or if any of them are. Was so richly endowed in so many different ways with emotional depth, with knowledge, with intellectual acuity and great subtlety. I was really enamored. I fell in love with her, to be frank. I mean even physically, there was a physical relationship that I will only brush on, I’m not going to go into any detail about it, thank you, it’s my own personal business. But and my wife’s. But it was a profound thing that happened, and a beautiful thing in the end.
Alan Steinfeld
Many people have talked about those types of relationships with these beings. But there was something still unintegrated about the expe… I mean, it’s so far beyond any reality. How were you able to really integrate that into a world where you could still be a functional person?
Whitley Strieber
It’s been a long time since the experience took place, and I’m still integrating. Because I have come to this place, the soul is real, it is very real. But the context in which we have placed the afterlife is simply conjecture. It’s not clear to me that it’s functionally very much like we’ve so far imagined. At the same time, I would say that it almost certainly contains powers and principalities, and that if you want to get a real flavor of what a mind unencumbered by modern rationalism thought about it, you read Luke’s work, the Gospel and his Acts of the Apostles. You begin to realize that this has been with us a long time. That maybe it is a contact of some sort with aliens, but they’re certainly not newcomers to our world, or at least if they are, they’re extraordinarily clever about not seeming so.
Alan Steinfeld
But what I feel you’re getting at and hinted throughout your books is that we really do exist on many levels in a sense at once. And it seems like the conditioning of our modern culture is to disregard other levels of consciousness and other ways of knowing. And those things do exist in shamanic cultures where they do acknowledge that. And your experience and many other people have had such experiences start to bridge a kind of open-ended expansion of human consciousness. That’s what I’m sensing.
Whitley Strieber
I think you’re, that’s exactly right. I think that it’s a challenge. We are in the process of being born as a species into a new way of being, and the earth is filled up, the womb is full. The birth canal is open, and we’re rolling down it. What is the birth canal? Well, the fact that the Arctic melted more last summer than it has during any summer in recorded history is a sign of the open birth canal. And the presence of these enigmatic visitors, if they are visitors, is another sign. The midwife has arrived, and the womb is ejecting us.
Alan Steinfeld
No, that’s very poetic, and it’s true. But I’m sort of interested in this understanding of states of consciousness, because when I’ve perhaps met some beings, I was not in this normal beta type reality, whatever they call that, this normal way of thinking. And I felt myself thinking and feeling differently as if I was sort of high or altered. There’s levels of consciousness that seem to take place that are beyond what we’ve been conditioned to think is true or real.
Whitley Strieber
You know, the fact that we’re blind doesn’t mean anything to me except that it’s an inconvenience for everybody, including people who are having this experience, because we can’t tell what the hell is going on. We’re creeping along with our sticks trying to feel our way. Some of the blind wish to enforce the blindness of others, but those who have sensed the presence of some sort of light ahead wish to go on. That’s really what it amounts to. On one level. On another level though, the following thing has happened, looking at it in a very large scale historical context. We had during the time of the Roman Empire things like De rerum natura, the poem of Lucretius, which declares from the works of Epicurus and Democritus very eloquently the notion that there is no soul as we understand it. This idea secularized Roman intellectual society throughout the first through the third centuries AD, and Augustus Caesar was so concerned by it he, one of his motives for having Virgil write the Aeneid was to counter this what he considered extremely pernicious idea, and in a sense he was right. Because then what happened, of course, was Rome became Christianized, Lucretius became heretical and disappeared from human knowledge for nearly a thousand years until he was recovered by Poggio in the 14th century, quite accidentally. And then with that recovery of On the Nature of Things, there came back into the culture, human Western culture, the secularizing idea Western culture, the concept that man may be a secular being and that he may not be the victim of powers and principalities as outlined in the Gospels, that he may indeed be simply something that lives and dies in the same way that Christopher Hitchens and Bill Maher advocate with varying degrees of eloquence. However, now we’ve come to the end of that journey and there’s a new journey starting. This journey says, yes, the soul is real. No, we do not know anything about the world it may inhabit except that it is there. And that’s where we are right now. In other words, if you look at the grand arch of history, what you see is a species evolving and preparing to experience a shock. That shock is birth into integrated understanding of whole being, which includes spirit.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, you know, I’ve been thinking about this understanding as well as if we’re opening up other senses, other ways of feeling ourselves, in a way becoming more human. It feels like the flowering of humanity is taking place.
Whitley Strieber
Well, I think so. I think that at the same time that we are at the limits of growth, and that’s what all of this unrest is all about. The Arab Spring, the Tea Party, the new movement that’s just cropped up, all of these people are responding in their own different ways to the same thing. We’ve come to the end of growth. We can’t grow anymore as we are here. Something else must happen. And it will, it certainly will, and I think you’re right on point with what it’s going to be. There’s going to be a new sensibility and with it are coming new emotions, which I touched on earlier when I spoke of the extraordinarily loving but acute relationship that I had with this wonderful person who came into my life and became the spirit and being of communion.
Alan Steinfeld
But you know, some people say these beings, whoever they are, whether extraterrestrial or not, are also here to learn about our humanness and they don’t have the capacity to feel the depths of emotion that we have. So you don’t seem to agree with that.
Whitley Strieber
Oh, no. I have been very close to them and I can assure you that we’ve got a lot to learn from them about emotional life. Emotional context. I’ll give you just a straight, straightforward and quick example of what I mean. I was once drawn out into the woods to meet her in the physical, which only happened a couple of times and under very difficult and controlled circumstances. But this was a chance to sit down together side by side, and I couldn’t do it. I was too afraid. There was no question but that she was there. They were all there. There was a group of them there. I could see them waiting in a clearing just beyond the woods, which I had to just walk through. But I turned around instead and left and returned to the house. And as soon as my hand touched the doorknob, I heard three cries from those woods that were the most emotionally rich sounds I’ve ever known to this day. I’ve never known anything like them, that moved me like that. And I was left, though, with a question. Were they the cries of a lover denied or a predator denied? I couldn’t be sure which. But I came finally, and fairly recently, to the understanding that it’s always going to be both. Every lover is a predator in a sense. Every lover seeks something that is given with trepidation. The Rape of the Sabine Women is a mythologized example of what happens to us all under circumstances like that. Now, the other side of this coin, though, was that I went into the house and I went up to my bedroom and I lay down or sat down on the side of the bed, and I could feel this being present in the room, right there. I couldn’t see her or it, but it was certainly there. And I was very sensitive to those things in those times. An instant later, I was no longer in that room. I was in another room where there were these tall wooden spires kind of, and I was gliding like I was flowing deliciously through this room. And then suddenly it was familiar. I realized what I was looking at was the legs of my mother’s desk. And what was happening was I was living back in time at the moment I first walked, so vividly recreated. It was as if I had really gone back in time and my adult consciousness had been injected into my baby body. It was the most dynamic of experiences, and it was given to me as a message: I had taken my first step and also fallen down. Now, this is just a gloss of the emotional depth and complexity of what’s actually here. But you must open yourself to it much more, and you have to let yourself be kind of tamed by it. We’re a wild species, and that’s why we fear them the same way animals fear us. They’re trying to tame us. That’s one of the things they’re trying to do.
Alan Steinfeld
The first step then, it seems if I can understand what you’re saying, would be this expansion of the possibility of who you really are. Would that be something that you mean in that sense?
Whitley Strieber
Well, that’s very well put, Alan. I don’t often get questions that have that level of subtlety and acuity. So thank you. The simple answer is absolutely yes. That there has to be a new kind of a process of discovery. And this is something that, this is the process of moving out of secular assumptions into a new set of assumptions about the nature of reality. That’s what’s required.
Alan Steinfeld
So that has to do with awareness. What you’ve discovered with your contact and in a way your communion with these beings is that the old sensing of reality that we’ve been so conditioned by our culture to think was only one way, you’ve sort of had an expansion of your mind and consciousness, and in a sense your neurology has been reworked to include something new as being possible.
Whitley Strieber
Well, I think that both Anne and I have experienced a dramatic change in our brains. We do not have the brains that we had before this happened to us. And it happened to both of us together. She didn’t have so much of the direct physical experience as I did, but she had access to all of the questions and all of the fear and all of the wonder. And it changed her too. We are different from what we used to be, very different. It feels also as if my physical body is different. I feel the world in a very different way than I did before. What I call it is coherence. There is an awareness or a sensitivity to levels of presence that I was previously numb to or anesthetized to. I’m a much more coherent being than I used to be, and more articulate too for that reason, because living from such coherence enables you to articulate states, I hope more clearly, because simply because of the fact that I’m aware of them now, that I hadn’t been before.
Alan Steinfeld
You see, I think that that’s so important what you’re saying now. I wasn’t sure why I was calling the conference UFOs and the Evolution of Consciousness. But what you’re saying is making it clear that we need to evolve our way of being, our consciousness, if we’re going to include the other in a new way, for a new humanity to rise out of these ashes that we’re creating now.
Whitley Strieber
Well, I don’t often go to UFO conferences. I’m very hesitant to do that because I’m going to talk over the heads of so many of the people there. They’re going to go away with nothing gained. I’d rather let that world proceed at the level it’s at now, which is essentially looking for proof of aliens. And that’s fine. I was there, I’ve been there and I’ve done that. And it’s a place you have to go and you have to do. But the title of your conference enthused me and I decided I would come and see if there were people who are interested in the possibilities that this next step implies.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, very, very interested. Of course, the organization that’s sponsoring it was founded by Edgar Mitchell, who realized in an epiphany in space looking at the Earth after walking on the Moon that there was a connection between consciousness, this feeling of our humanness, Earth, and science itself. There has to be a coming together, and it feels like the next step really has to do with that integration.
Whitley Strieber
Well, I think it does. Edgar is a good friend, and he’s already read Communion Enigma and has given me a blurb for the cover. So, which is great, and a lovely thing to do. But I’m hoping you’re right, because this is going to be a near thing. I’m not so sure that, I think that where we are now is something that probably happens to every intelligent species in the universe. And I think that we’re either going to be born alive and healthy, born deformed, or born dead. And I would like to be born alive and healthy. That is going to take an extraordinary effort of the human mind, the intellect, the imagination, the emotion, the spirit is all going to have to work toward that. And to begin, it’s essential that we have some clarity about our aims. We need to actually see the light that’s beginning to emerge in the birth canal. We need to see where we’re going. And that’s what I’m hoping conferences like this will help us do.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, that’s, I feel this is the only reason to have a conference, to explore these possibilities. Because if you look at the history of, let’s call it UFOs, there doesn’t seem to be such a change from what happened in the 40s and 50s and 60s. They come, they go, they’re here, they’re there. You know, maybe there’s more sightings, but the very nature of its phenomena has been with us. And so we have to change in order to meet something other.
Whitley Strieber
Well, we do. The phenomenon is there to create questions that cannot be answered. There was a study done at the UC Santa Barbara and at the University of British Columbia about surrealism. And it was reported in the journal Psychological Science a couple of years ago. It concluded that when you’re exposed to something called a meaning threat, something that fundamentally doesn’t make sense. Your brain is going to respond and your brain is going to become more logical. There will literally be changes in the brain. And that’s what the whole theater is about. It is a mechanism designed to induce evolution in the species. And I’m sure it’s been here many times. In fact, I know it has. In the 18th century, there were so many UFO sightings over Japan that the country nearly, the government nearly fell because people were so upset until the astronomers of the period came up with the first satisfactory debunking. They said, well, it was nothing to be concerned about. It was just the wind making the stars sway. And so it went away. During the Merovingian period in France, there were numerous sightings of things that were called the Republic of the Air, and people considered them to be terribly dangerous and frightening. So it’s happened from time to time before, but not at least as far as I know in the historical record in such a protracted way as it has been happening since the 1930s when this really started. It started quite a bit of time before the usual sort of 1947, but it didn’t get amplified into the media in any significant way until the 40s. At the same time that we became able to completely destroy ourselves, this essentially life-affirming process began. And the mind began looking at it and asking unanswerable questions. And now it’s time to go beyond that, to integrate those questions into a relationship with whatever is there.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I’m happy you mentioned surrealism because I’m actually writing about the artist’s role in creating new realities. Because it’s only by integrating those more fantastic possibilities that we do evolve, and we evolve our perception. And it’s always been the artist at the forefront of our evolution, or some kind of artist, whether they’re writers or musicians or poets, to see a new pattern in the chaos that’s out there in order for other people to recognize what the artist has cognized and to integrate it into a neurological shift. That’s my theory basically. So we need people at the forefront of consciousness to talk about what doesn’t seem possible to the mainstream culture. And they’re the ones that are responsible for the mass neurological change within the race itself.
Whitley Strieber
Well, I think neurological change is taking place. I think that it’s being induced. And in fact, I would say that what I’ve seen over the past 30 years is the following. That initially, when I started to go out with this story, there was shocked laughter. People couldn’t believe anybody with any sense in their head would ever say such a thing. That evolved into questioning, but then the passivity of people, the terrible soul-destroying passivity in which so many people live, emerged, and they began to wait for the aliens to show up, sort of like the second coming. And when that happened, I thought to myself, well, since that’s never going to occur in any way that they might find comprehensible in this mindset, they’re going to be disappointed. And indeed, the hostility toward me now is extraordinary. There was an article about The Key published on Huffington Post, which is a center of that old form of thinking, that old linear form of thinking, and people like Christopher Hitchens held sway there. It resulted in an explosion of sneering hatred and frightened derision completely unlike what would have happened to me 10 or 15 years ago. And it superficially seems as if, well, you would think, well, we’re sliding back. But that’s actually not the case. The truth is these people who are shouting so loudly have already realized that there is something true there that they don’t understand, and when they’re forced to confront it, they get angry.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Well, let’s hope that is that. And it’s sort of like their last cry of the desperate trying to hold onto a reality that doesn’t work anymore.
Whitley Strieber
Oh, the cicadas are singing their autumn song now all over the world. That’s what religious fundamentalisms are about.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s what corporate America is all about, right?
Whitley Strieber
Exactly. We’re coming to an end, and it’s a beautiful time in the same way that autumn is beautiful. But it also portends change and unexpected difficulties, and those things we will all experience, most of us actually. They’re coming much more quickly than we realized, and most of us will experience these things certainly in our lifetimes, even those of us who are in their 50s and 60s will.
Alan Steinfeld
But it’s so exciting as well. I’m very excited about what’s coming and what’s possible and the directions that humanity as a whole can move to totally new realms. It’s amazing.
Whitley Strieber
Well, evolution is always exciting until it actually happens to you. And then you think to yourself, wait a minute, I need wings, and you don’t have any.
Alan Steinfeld
But they do grow in some species, they seem to appear.
Whitley Strieber
Yeah, that’s true. The dinosaurs grew, they became birds. But while it was happening, I think they were probably quite upset.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, so is the caterpillar when it totally melts its body, you know?
Whitley Strieber
It’s the better metaphor, I think, the caterpillar and the butterfly. I think that when we look at our visitors, so-called, we are looking at the butterflies. And as one would expect, the caterpillar would find something so alien to be quite hideous and quite other, and it would be completely impossible for the caterpillar to believe that that is me. However, one witness, Lori Barnes, who also had an extraordinary multiple witness experience at our cabin in upstate New York back in 1959, was lying in bed. She was pregnant with a child, and in those days, of course, people had no idea, there was no way to tell whether it would be a boy or a girl. And she was alone in the house, her husband was at work, and she heard a noise and saw four little short men come into the room. And she was absolutely terrified because in those days, there was no word of any aliens or any strange figures like that being around. And she was absolutely horrified, and the leader of the group came up beside the bed and said, ‘Do not be afraid. We’re not here for you. Our interest is in the girl child you’re carrying.’ Which certainly didn’t calm her down at all, but then it turned out she was carrying a girl when the baby was born three months later, it turned out to be the case. But he then, there was an exchange between them, and she at one point cried out, ‘You’re so ugly.’ And he put his hand on her hand and said, ‘My dear, one day you will look just like us.’
Alan Steinfeld
Wow.
Whitley Strieber
And I think that’s who we are looking at. I think we are looking at ourselves, because at some level there is really no distance. There is really no separateness. As we grow, we grow into a condition of being that is known as conscious life. Right now we’re still isolated in an animal state, but we won’t be forever. And when we’re not, I suppose that these strange-looking beings will seem quite beautiful to us because they will be us, and we will be them.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, thank you for that. I mean, I think that helps actually a lot of people who hear this to integrate the experience, because what you’re saying I feel is about sentience. The value of awareness and consciousness and feeling being the true beauty of a species, not what color feathers they’re wearing in their hair or their wings. But it’s our maturing as a sentient race, growing up from the superficial judgment of others. So I think it’s a very important point. I did want to ask you what it was like to be in the presence of that woman, that female being on the cover of the book. What did it feel like in your awareness, I’m interested. Was it changed or shifted?
Whitley Strieber
Well, the first time I noticed her, which was on the night of the experience in December of ’85 where I was so upset, it looked like a big bug. I didn’t have the impression that it was anything remotely resembling a human being. But then later, other contacts I would have said that it was more like a mutated human being than it was something that would be alien or otherworldly. And when one of the editors from William Morrow and Company encountered her and her husband in a bookstore in Manhattan, that was also his impression, that they were human beings that were unfolding on a much bigger scale than we were in terms of consciousness. And then again, that editor was called Bruce Lee, and the story I think is recounted either in Transformation or Breakthrough, my second books in the Communion series. In any case, my dear old friend Timothy Greenfield-Sanders found himself face to face with one of them on a street corner, also in Manhattan, with her. And she leaned into his car on the day Anne and I had lost our cabin and were leaving forever to go to Texas where we had a little condo we could live in. And she leaned into his car on 14th Street while he was stopped in traffic and said, ‘Are you going west?’ Because we were going west. And he said, ‘No, I’m going east’ because he was going east on 14th Street. And she said, ‘Well, that’s good.’ And then stepped away and walked off and disappeared into the crowd. And a moment later he realized that it had been her, it had been that being. He was the first person I told about it because I couldn’t figure out how to tell my wife, and so I told him to see what would happen. And he said to me afterwards, ‘Whitley, you know she’s a lot prettier than the picture on that cover.’ And I knew that to be true. She didn’t look or feel nearly as alien. And the senses, let’s say, could be transformed into an entirely new experience by the touch of this being.
Alan Steinfeld
Is there one of her, or is she a race of being? Because in my experience, and I think I’ve had similar, I called her the ancient one, like a very ancient female being.
Whitley Strieber
Well, she once said to me, ‘I created you’ and I wasn’t sure whether she meant the whole species or just me, or both. You know, I think that this individualization and sexualization is in me. I’m not so sure that what I’m looking at really corresponds to those things in quite that way.
Alan Steinfeld
But are they all like her, or is there just that one?
Whitley Strieber
Oh no, I’ve seen very many different individual forms, and some that were obviously quite old, some that were young. There were two that struck me as, you know, like kids. And shortly before we left forever, one of them, one of these young ones leaped on my back and pinned my arms to my sides and it was like being enclosed in spring steel and just screamed and screamed and screamed because it was ending and whatever had happened and been happening among us she did not want to see ended. That was not the same being clearly.
Alan Steinfeld
So in solving the communion enigma, and I know you’ll be talking about that this weekend, but is it this kind of conclusion that you’re coming to that it’s the evolution of our human race or do you get more specifically the enigma as it’s been presented individually to you?
Whitley Strieber
This is about entering the next phase in human experience. The phase we are in now is exemplified in the card of the Fool in the tarot. The next card is the card of the Magician. That’s what it’s about. It’s about entering the Magician, discovering the Magician within us.
Alan Steinfeld
And is that I guess is what the whole breakdown of our economy, our government is we need to break down the old structures that don’t work.
Whitley Strieber
Well, we don’t have to worry about breaking them down ourselves, they’re going to break down on their own. Because they don’t work. But what the Magician does is he pulls something else out of his hat that is totally unexpected. You know Lee Spiegel? He writes for the Huffington Post. Who interviewed me about the key. He told a remarkable story on my radio program on Dreamland. I interviewed him on Dreamland about Doug Henning, the Magician who died. He said that he had made a discovery about the body and Lee saw him levitate, physically levitate, not using illusion in a room during a party where he took Lee into the room and said this is what I’ve learned and what I can do. And he said I’m going to integrate this into my act. But it was the wrong moment and instead of integrating it into his act, he moved on, he left this life because it wasn’t time. But there is magic available to us, there’s no question in my mind about it. And if you go into quantum theory and you begin to think in terms of things like how energy states and phase are distributed, actually distributed, it becomes clear that such transformations are almost certainly really possible that we may be able to extract ourselves from the trap via what right now seems to be literal magic, but it’s not going to require any more technology, we’re finished with that. What it is going to require is an act of mind which we can at present just barely sense the possibility of, but which in the future will become the way we are.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, no that is great. I’ve always suspected that it is about how we’re thinking that is creating the reality and that the possibilities of who we are as human beings are still untold. They’re still to be explored and we have to help each other wake up to what’s possible or seemingly impossible. Because we have yet to tap our potential. It seems obvious to me that genius is waiting to be born in each one of us.
Whitley Strieber
I think that’s beautifully said. It is, and I think it’s deeply true. You know, Meister Eckhart wrote a marvelous sermon that is germane to this part of our discussion entitled God laughs and plays. And this is what we need to learn to do. To laugh and play. And we are deeply mired in the clay of seriousness.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. It reminds me of, do you know who Richard Bartlett is? He teaches something called Matrix Energetics.
Whitley Strieber
Yes, I know about Matrix Energetics and Richard Bartlett.
Alan Steinfeld
He’s amazing because half the time he is just rolling on the floor laughing and you don’t know what he’s laughing about but he is moving through dimensions and awarenesses and people are having miracle healings just by this shift in attitude. This shift in these other realms that he’s playing in. He’s truly remarkable. I think you’d really enjoy him.
Whitley Strieber
I know a lot about his work. Yes. I’ve enjoyed him, just watching him laugh for no reason at all.
Alan Steinfeld
I think you’re right, I think all the drama of the human experiences have been played out but what hasn’t happened yet is the true joy in a planetary culture and this is where we’re moving to.
Whitley Strieber
It’s going to be a challenge to find, especially under the circumstances in which we will be living over the next couple of decades. There will be difficulty ahead. But you know, the truest and most important thing that was ever said to me by the visitors was one of the few things that was said in open speech: Have joy. And that it was both an offering and an admonition. And it has become the center of my own search. My search is a search around the possibilities of joy. And I think that the magic that I referred to just a few moments ago and what Meister Eckhart was referring to when he was talking about God laughing and playing is all about what you were just describing, which is the integration of joy and being and the free movement of being in the realms of joy.
Alan Steinfeld
So that is the Magician card, you know he steps forth in a joy and a radiance that only can come from some inner place, it doesn’t come from the world, it comes from something emanating out of us.
Whitley Strieber
I agree, I think it does.
Alan Steinfeld
And that’s the challenge. So I mean there are visitors, there’s whatever’s going on, and I look at it as an inspiration to be more of who we truly are as maybe multidimensional beings, and I’m looking forward to your presentation on Saturday.
Whitley Strieber
Well, yeah, I hope my presentation is effective and it reaches people. I never know what is going to happen until it happens. I never prepare these things at all.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s the best kind of presentation, the one that…
Whitley Strieber
Yeah, if you can’t, if it’s not in you, you shouldn’t try to confound yourself with it. And what I will do though is I’ll read from the new book and talk a little bit about this journey and where it may take us and where we may find the energy that we need to actually travel a little further beyond the present model of experience and belief in terms of the strange mystery that we find ourselves enmeshed in.
Alan Steinfeld
The strange mystery which all the mystics have told us we really are.
Whitley Strieber
Well, I think that’s true. And you know, as I touched on a few minutes ago, if what Einstein referred to as spooky action at a distance is, if something… when you have two entangled photons, two photons that have been touched together and then drawn apart again across, and you do something to one of them, the other one changes in exactly the same way instantaneously. The relationship between them is outside of the context of distance because it’s, so to speak, faster than light. And that bridge between these two particles is something that we can come to in our lives. But it is not a matter of building some sort of machine that will do it. It is a matter of finding another level of being. And the only way to increase your vibration is through joy. And when you do, then suddenly you discover how hilarious it was that you ever thought there was such a thing as an alien anywhere in the universe. It’s absurd.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, thank you, thank you for that. Actually you sound more and more like the Master of the Key in some ways as if…
Whitley Strieber
Anne thinks the Master of the Key is me. Came back from the future, a future life, and taught myself what I had learned. And I say to her, you know Anne, the dizzying contradiction of that is so fascinatingly strange that maybe it’s true.
Alan Steinfeld
Or we can all be each other having the experience of one another. I mean, consciousness is a word that has no plural in a sense.
Whitley Strieber
That’s very true. And it shouldn’t have a plural because it is what it is. And you know, at the same time, we’re like ice skaters and magicians are very much about balance and awareness because we refer to it I think briefly earlier to powers and principalities which is of course the gospel description of the powers of the dark side. And this aspect of being must never be forgotten. I well remember a lady I met who seemed to know what would happen to me. She was a very advanced Kabbalist. And I met her some years before the communion experience and she said you know… she had been in Poland and escaped from the Germans by going all the way across Russia and Mongolia and ending up taking a ship, it was an extraordinary story. In any case, she said that they had made extraordinary strides in contacting and coming into relationship with the good, with the light, with the good side. But she said they had ignored and pushed away the dark side instead of embracing it. And suddenly here it came. Blasting across the river in tanks driven by men with death’s head insignia on their uniforms. And she said we realized our mistake but too late. And she said to me, don’t forget this. And I haven’t.
Alan Steinfeld
And that in a way pushed you to go and confront this phenomenon that so freaked you out. Was it that kind of inspiration?
Whitley Strieber
Yes, it was, exactly. I thought at the time that it was the most dangerous thing I could imagine. That it was not just dangerous to my body, but that it was dangerous to that part of me which has reference to eternity. That it could change that and destroy that and remove me from the potentials that that deity embraces. And that was hard. Those woods were a hard place for me to walk under those circumstances with that, not simply imagining that it might be an alien, but it could be practically anything.Are fears, but certain knowledge that these possible, that these powers did have that potential.
Alan Steinfeld
But it evolved you and pushed you into places probably you could not have reached any other way.
Whitley Strieber
Yeah, you don’t dare the darkness, you don’t find out what’s in it and therefore you can’t grow.
Alan Steinfeld
And you know, you’ve been for me and I think a lot of people a major pioneer in the exploration of the unknown let’s say, of this enigma as you call it, that is constantly throughout the centuries rearing its head in so many different ways that now it’s the alien or…
Whitley Strieber
Oh, we’re changing that. We’re getting past that right now. We’re just at the point where that changes and it’s not going to be the alien anymore for very long. That’s about over.
Alan Steinfeld
You’re saying in a sense the awakening that it’s truly us.
Whitley Strieber
The next step, that’s what the next step is, that us simply embraces everyone. It’s not just there are no aliens. There might be people around who were born on other planets and who are shaped like octopi, but they’re still not aliens.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, because they’re consciousness. They’re beings that we can exchange a feeling of something with.
Whitley Strieber
We’re all here.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah. Yeah. And we’re all here to seek joy even those that don’t seem to be like they’re into joy but they’re… So thank you Whitley, I appreciate your words and your time. I look forward to seeing you on Saturday and Friday.
Whitley Strieber
Well, I hope that people come and that we have a good experience and I’ll see you Saturday. Thank you very much for your time and for your careful thought Alan and the good questions. They were a delight.
Alan Steinfeld
Thank you. You know, this is a subject I thought about, I constantly, I wouldn’t say obsessed with, but it’s always on my mind because of my own experiences. And you’ve been a guide. You’ve been an inspiration and I’ll show you what I’m working on at some point and love to get your feedback about that. So thank you very much. And yes, so we’ll see you Friday and Saturday. I’ve been talking to Whitley Strieber. His website is unknowncountry.com. And you do your radio show every week?
Whitley Strieber
Dreamland is on every week. This coming weekend there will be a program about earthquakes that’s quite extraordinary. So don’t miss it.
Alan Steinfeld
And Whitley Strieber will be in New York this Saturday, October 22nd at the Community Church along with Linda Moulton Howe and Richard Dolan. It’s a conference on UFOs and the Evolution of Consciousness, which is what we’ve really been talking about here tonight is how this phenomena change us as human beings. So don’t miss it. It’s really the first major conference of its sort in New York City. If you want more information you can go to the FIONS, that’s the Friends of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, fions.org and there’s a little thing to click on there about the conference or you can go to newrealities.com website or you can email me as well at newrealities@earthlink.net and thank you for listening. And Anne Strieber will also be there at the brunch on Sunday giving comments about her, thousands of letters she read in her…
Whitley Strieber
She will read some of these amazing experiences. It’ll be one of the most extraordinary things you’ve ever heard.
Alan Steinfeld
So I’m looking forward to that. So come to the brunch on Sunday as well. There’s a film about UFOs and consciousness on the 21st, there’s the conference on the 22nd and there’s a brunch on the 23rd. So it’s a jam-packed weekend of UFOs in New York. That’s what I call it. Okay, thanks again and looking forward to seeing you Whitley.
Whitley Strieber
Thank you, Alan.
Alan Steinfeld
This is Alan Steinfeld for New Realities, if you want to reach me my email is newrealities@earthlink.net and thanks for listening. I welcome your comments, also go to my website newrealities.com.